Sonny Liston: “The Strongest Heavyweight I Ever Dealt With” - George Foreman

Whenever I think of Sonny Liston, I think of one word alone; JUGGERNAUT. Look it up. It is a PERFECT description of Sonny.

 

He should have said Ali because Ali manhandled a prime, not young, Foreman in their fight.

Ali never gets the credit for his strength. Another guy who when you stood beside him was much larger than the measurements would suggest.

 

Oddly enough I looked up "juggernaut" for the first time a few months ago and until then I'd thought a literal juggernaut was some kind of early locomotive or other steam powered machinery.

It was actually a hand-carried "car" that Indian princes would ride in public processions, and whose carriers would just trample anyone unfortunate enough to fall down in its path.

Now where the hell did the expression "bought the farm" come from? Or (more relevant to the forum) "***** street"?

 

For once, i agree. Theres a big difference between sheer weight and actual, functional physical strengtg and toughness. Ive met plenty of guys who were 230-240+ lbs who were weak as hell in arm wrestling, grappling, lifting and moving objects, etc.

 

It does not require superhuman, charles xavier brain power to remember which guy you fought that you would consider the strongest.

People accept boxers naming which opponent had the best chin, who was the fastest, had the best body shots, uppercuts, timing, defense, etc. In fact physical strenth would be the easiest category to remember and is the most tangible.

 

Yes ali has underrated physical strength, especially for a guy who didnt lift weights.

But using the foreman fight and claiming he "manhandled" him is pretty innacurate. Ali used defense, counter punching, and slipping for 80% of the fight until foreman got tired. Idk what fight you were watching but Ali was not just effortlessly overpowering foreman. If he was as strong as youre suggesting, Ali would not have needed to adopt that safety first strategy in the first place.

 

Watch it again, Ali is wrestling and turning him, riding his neck and shoulders, smothering and just wearing him out. He starts doing this in the very first round. Later, when Ali wants off the ropes, he gets right off them. It was bull and matador stuff but in a very physical, mauling sense. It wasn't just George's output, or Ali's counters that had Foreman's gas tank on empty. Ali controlled the trenches, too.

 

I disagree. There are so many variables that affect how strong an opposing boxer seems, and even more that affect how strong someone remembers them being half a century later. It’s no surprise that Foreman would pick as probably his strongest opponent a man he held in awe and who he competed against when he was much younger, less experienced, and much smaller than he was when he fought some of his largest “roided up” opponents.

For the record though, as I’ve made clear in the past, I don’t put much stock in some of those other “best I’ve faced” categories either.

 

This is a pretty misleading analysis of both Foreman’s interview and my take on it. The reference to Liston being “probably” the strongest man he fought comes as a throwaway line near the end. From what I recall, he spends more of the interview focusing on Liston’s jab, power, and intimidating manner.

Unlike some people around here, I don’t pick and choose which quotes to credit and which to dismiss. I’ve been very consistent in expressing my skepticism toward these type of boxer sound bytes. It’s weird to me that folks treat these things with such reverence. How is me pointing it out here “convenient”?

I didn’t even get into the fact that Foreman is a notorious ham and a bullshitter, a point I’ve made numerous times in other contexts.

 

Of course but what we think of as functional physical strength also reflects technique and not just actual strength. Guys who know how to get better position in a clinch can seem a lot stronger than others who are just as strong but lacking in technique. As a former wrestler, I’ve manhandled guys who are objectively stronger than me because I knew what I was doing.

 

You still seem to somehow misunderstand my position. Never accused Foreman of lying.

The Gallico quote has nothing to do with this. IIRC, it was a contemporaneous firsthand account of one man’s observation of a single fighter. That is completely different than listening to a man recall his experience sparring someone half a century ago and then comparing it to the hundreds of men he’s sparred and fought with over the following thirty years.

PS—I don’t recall ever defending the accuracy of Gallico’s appraisal when others criticized or called it into question but it seems fundamentally more reliable than this kind of quote. I get that it’s a lot less convenient for your agenda though, and therefore not at all worth being taken seriously.