The Decline of the Popularity of Boxing in the United States

Compared to the rest of what life had to offer at the time? Not at all.

You could box your way out of some racists farm.
Could you add, create, engineer, finance, or sue your way out?

Many racists and slave owners condoned in, and set up fights between slaves.
Did they set up spelling bees, oral debates, and science fairs too?

If a slave could fight exceptionally well, they might rise up beyond the farm. Tom Molineaux and Bill Richmond for example. Beyond that, after slavery, society was accepting of black men boxing. Far more than they were accepting of them being doctors, lawyers, accountants, politicians, artists, etc.

Jack Johnson became the heavyweight champion of the world decades before other barriers were being broken down.

 

Your take on this part of southern history—a topic I’ve studied in great depth—seems to be skewed by a small number of outliers. The comparison to professional jobs is irrelevant. Neither professional boxing nor professional occupations were realistic aspirations for Southern black men in the early twentieth century. The racist whites who ran the south realized that their economic and social order depended on keeping most black people in conditions as close to slavery as possible. Guys had to work six or seven days a week from sunrise to sunset just to survive and feed their children. When and how do you imagine they would have embarked on their nascent boxing careers in such conditions?

 

And two of your slaves punching each other in the face was a far less threat to that order than giving them a book.

Probably when the master felt like seeing blood.
Or wanted to use their talented labor for profits.

According to Frederick Douglass, wrestling and boxing for sport, like festivals around holidays, were “among the most effective means in the hands of the slave owners in keeping down the spirit of insurrection."

A black man, a former slave, fought for the heavyweight championship in 1810.
His slave owner made $100,000 off of him.

We're still hearing about black people accomplishing things for the first time today in the 21st century. This happened 200 years ago.

It's no secret to anybody that knows boxing history, that boxing was one of the earliest meritocracies in the country. And that racial barriers were being dismantled in the sport far more rapidly than almost, if not every other aspect of American life.

And just to specify my point so that there is no confusion, barriers and restrictions DID exist in harsh and vast forms in boxing due to racism. But the effects from it were far less than almost every other aspect of American life.

 

I’m sure you know this but slavery ended before the early twentieth century period that we’ve been discussing. Let me ask you this though: if Boxing was a meritocracy in the early 20th century and southern blacks free to pursue it, why was the sport so overwhelmingly white? And why did such a disproportionate percentage of the notable black boxers of that period hail from outside the former confederate states, even though the vast majority of black people—including those with the absolute worst living conditions—lived in those states? By your logic, the sport would have been absolutely flooded with southern blacks.

 

I shouldn't have had to added this "fine print" to my post, which I did so before reading your post. But I knew I'd have to.

Also, another reason for the sport being more overwhelmingly white, was that more white people were poor. And thus a higher percentage of white people were willing to box. You can draw direct correlations with racial/national groups, socioeconomic standing, and prevalence in boxing. Most boxers come from poorer backgrounds. There's a reason for that.

America doesn't have the talent to utilize it's unique competitive edge: the efficient funnels for athletes and boxers spurred by cultural and economic forces. Life is getting better for everyone, fast. The quality of life today is far ahead of our grandparents. Ask them about it, and or look at the data. And boxing is no longer a past time. It's now more akin to an extreme sport with deep cultural roots.

It's no wonder many of the top stars in todays sport are being plucked from the corners of Kazahkstan, The Philippines, Ukraine, etc. Recent global developments allowing for the top .0001% talent in those countries to break through is making up for the gulf of lost talent in America.

 

You should read up on what life was like for black people in the south post-Reconstruction some time. I think you would find it illuminating and eye-opening. It would help you understand the points I’ve been raising, and help you answer my question about why so many black boxers in that period picked up the sport in states outside of the former confederate states (or in other countries), even when the vast majority of the worst off black people still lived in those southern states.

PS- Most poor Americans are still white...

 

How disgustingly patronizing of you.

You're not even making any real points.
You're just tooting your horn about your supposed education.

 

Sorry to be patronizing but you’re arguing with me about a topic that you clearly don’t know much about.

 

And how do you know that?

Again you're not contributing anything meaningful, or even proposing a point.
You're just masturbating your ego.

 

I know that because you’ve made it abundantly clear throughout this back and forth. I’ve made my point multiple times. If you are still unable to grasp it that’s on you, not me.

Edit (to help you out): In case you really don’t understand, my obvious point was that many of the most disadvantaged Americans were effectively excluded from the sport in the early years of the twentieth century because of racism in the sport and, more importantly, the extreme racism and oppressive living conditions experienced by black men throughout most of the south.

 

Lol, alrighty...

 

I actually think you are both right and wrong. A lot of blacks (maybe even the majority) did not have the opportunity to improve their live through boxing because they could not compete due to a) the conditions on the South and b) general racism. However, boxing still allowed more blacks to compete and succeed to a certain degree in boxing than in other fields.

 

True.
I think if you add up the reasons for both sides, it tips in the favor of their being better overall talent at the time.

Barring the color line for the HW belt, I think that racism did less to prevent talent influx 100 years ago, than the century wide shift in lifestyle does for today. Perhaps I'm wrong but that's my feeling.

 

Care to expound on in what ways racism prevented most disadvantaged Americans from being included into the sport. I know about the color line, battle royales, and how everyday oppression could spill over to boxing. But perhaps there were even more severe consequences that I'm not aware of that could help me measure the overall effects more accurately?

 

And horse racing was, I believe, #3 ahead of #4 college football I believe.
Wow, what a spectator change in half a century. I remember all the movies/TV shows circa 40's, 50,'s, & early 60's.
Everyone was "goin' to the fights", goin' to the racetrack, goin' to the ballpark."