Sonny Liston: “The Strongest Heavyweight I Ever Dealt With” - George Foreman

Huh? It doesn’t matter how talented Foreman was or how many superlatives you want to attach to his name. That has minimal bearing on the accuracy and meaningfulness of the quote, for all the reasons I’ve already explained at length. If you don’t see the fundamental qualitative difference between the two quotes, I don’t know what to tell you. One requires that we trust a fairly well-informed writer to accurately describe things that he has personally observed in the very recent past. The other requires that we trust a man to accurately measure, recall, and compare the strength of other men during hundreds of experiences over the course of thirty plus years...Completely different thing.

 

One requires that we trust a man with little to no practical experience in the craft.
Versus a man who was one of the best practitioners in it's entire history.

In my honest opinion, the fact that you have this backwards is a poor critical analysis.

 

I’m very comfortable with my analysis, for all the reasons I’ve explained (and that you’ve failed to address). And again, for the record, the contemporaneous Gallico writeup doesn’t have anything to do with Foreman’s late-life throwaway line. You can trash Gallico for being a non-fighter if you want (seems kind of silly but to each his own). None of that has any bearing whatsoever on the reasons for my reaction to Foreman’s quote.

 

I'm not trashing him, rather than calling into question using an opinion of his to support an argument in the subject of boxing, while distrusting the opinion of George Foremans to weaken one. It doesn't even out.

Foreman deserves to be taken as more than credible in the subject of this topic, and in the context of this interview. I think most people see that.

 

Interesting that Both Ali & Liston weighed in at several lbs lower in weight for Fight 2 Rematch, than for Fight #1 in Miami. And the Lewiston fight ends up going less than one round (instead of a long, knock down drag-out many fans expected)

 

The Ali fights, particularly the second one, ruined his legacy. Had he got his title opportunity in the late 50s or the very beginning of the 1960s he'd be an automatic choice in everybody's top 10 heavyweights and in most people's top 5. But his title reign was too undistinguished when compared with other greats like Holmes, Marciano and even Tyson to rate him higher. But if you put him in a head to head fantasy match up with the best heavyweights in history, he looks hard to beat.

 

"Bought the farm" is post WW2. It refers to G.I.s who die and their pension pays for the family farm.

"Q u e e r street" is more of a mystery. British origins in early 19th century meant something different.

 

Always said it about the Ali v Foreman fight. He got tied up and man handled in close, but I think it was cuteness and always thinking by Ali, moving, grabbing. Pure brute strength is Foreman though, Ali just too cute for brute strength

 

Yes , he got bigger like many heavyweights. Ali fought in the 190's and very low 200's for years and he grew. Many of the fighters Foreman fought got bigger as their careers lengthened .. he did not fight them in their first few fights ... many of the men he fought were in far from great condition as well .. Sonny at 215 to 220 was still a rock and a natural one at that .

 

Old Foreman at 250 - 260 lbs would easily manhandle Liston

 

well foreman was young back then sonny wouldnt do it to 1973 and onwards Big George

 

The Foreman in this video had experienced his entire career and retirement.

He didn’t say “Sonny Liston was probably the strongest....till I faced Gerry Cooney and Shannon Briggs.”

I think he knew what he was saying, and meant it.

Some people have this mentality of “Ah yeah, cute stories of past legends, but the 80’s is when things got really serious.” And they want Foreman’s story to fit that anecdote. Even though he insists against it.

Based on how many in this forum describe the explosion of talent and ability in the 80’s, you’d think George’s position would be “Oh yeah! It was way different, I was really in the big leagues then! These guys could manhandle me!”

But nope. And he still considers Ali his toughest opponent. Ali, the one that is too cute for modern SHWs.

 

I don't think anyone is saying Foreman's era was "cute". In fact, I imagine most who commentate on the division's progress would look to Liston as being a watershed athlete, a fairly nimble, extremely powerful and long heavyweight, the type who would later dominate the division. Hell, I would throw Ali in there, too. There had never been anything like him before, in combination of size, speed, agility. And while, there hasn't been a clone of him since, there was a wave of heavies who at least had that combo of assets that was scarce before Ali.

 

He’d almost certainly have an easier time pushing Liston back and getting him off his front foot anyway.

 

We generally agree, but not in this case I guess. This has been so overblown that it's not even funny. Ali didn't "manhandle" Foreman at all. In order for this to be a proven fact, Foreman would've had to be actively trying to resist Ali's force and push back. In the fight we see the exact opposite. Foreman is content to fire away punches, while Ali is subtly changing the trajectory of the punch with tugs on his shoulders, arms or head. Who cares though, Foreman wasn't trying to push Ali's arms up or off of him as Ali was doing it. If he did, and failed consistently, your premise would work, but that isn't close to what happen. Foreman was content to let Ali do his holding and grabbing, and just keep firing away. IF Foreman actively and physically tried to resist Ali, he would've overpowered him. I could move the strongest guy in the worlds shoulders or arms a little if he's not trying to resist me or push back in the opposite direction I'm going. If he's content to do something else, I could make him move, that by no means says I'm stronger than him.