Floyd Mayweather resolve and toughness was never really tested never been in a hard hard hard fight!

Definitely not saying weight was a factor. Floyd is obviously 2 levels above Hatton as a boxer.

I don't know if Floyd beat a better version of Ricky than PAC. It's hard to tell because Manny completely destroyed Ricky from the onset.

One thing is clear, Hatton was the best Jr. Welterweight at that time and not a great 147 lber.

If PAC didn't hurt Ricky so early he may have gotten into a rhythm and given Manny more trouble. He he never got out of 2nd gear

 

I'll concede loaded gloves Margo might have bothered Floyd but I think like everyone else Floyd figures him out eventually. And if we're talking about the non cheating Margarito that fought Mosley, I give that version absolutely zero chance against Floyd. The non cheating Margarito is the one Pac fought not the loaded gloves one. Again, Pac fought Margarito when it was safe.

You're just reinforcing what we're saying. You keep bringing up examples of fighters Pac fought who weren't at their best and . Yet you criticize Floyd?

 

Hatton had already shown signs of deterioration in his final fight with The Preacher and was having trouble balancing Big Floyd's teachings with the style he'd honed under Billy (it's well documented that the camps were a shambles, too). The 'back to his best' Malignaggi performance was something of a red herring, given that Hatton always would've mowed through Paulie, who had nothing to keep him off, and would have done it even sooner in his pomp.

Incidentally, Hatton had a fixation with Floyd which began a couple years before he lost to him and abided for a while after. He disliked him intensely, but there was something there he admired and coveted. Hiring his father was an extension of that vanity.

 

I don't think Floyd Sr had any real influence in changing Ricky. He showed no signs of the Mayweather style in his fight with Manny before getting hurt and dropped in the opening round. After that it was just a matter of time because his legs were gone. Ricky definitely appreciated Mayweather's skills and style which was the polar opposite of his.

 

He wasn't rocking a philly shell and potshotting from the outside, obviously, but he was a touch more deliberate under Big Floyd, who encouraged him to take his time, employ more method and think. That was at odds with what Hatton did best (and was built for, with his fast feet and excellent combination work in-close) and slowed him down. He was too long in the tooth for it. It only had the effect of making him more of an easy target for serious guns like Floyd and Pac. If Floyd had rematched Ricky, he would've gotten to him quicker, too.

Of course, the snap consensus wisdom among talking heads was that Hatton had regressed 'back to the old Ricky' after he got KO'd by Pac, citing a 'boxing clinic' against Malignaggi as evidence, but he was the same guy in both fights - a more deliberate, overthinking version of the buzzsaw who worked his way up to a showdown with the greatest fighter of his era.

And he was definitely constitutionally depleted by the time he fought Pac. The Lazcano fight showed that. Mayweather took something from Ricky. He was leftovers when Pac got him.

 

I disagree. That Hatton looked unsure and indecisive at times as if to remind himself to remember what he trained for. I'm sure part of it was Pac's speed and power but still, that wasn't the same Hatton. That was such a bad move on his part to switch out trainers so late in his career. Ricky had a lot more confidence before getting KOd.

 

Possibly, but Ricky came straight ahead in typical Hatton fashion which is how he got caught. Maybe he didn't come bull rushing Manny in the first round, but he didn't do that against Floyd either.

It's hard to see what resonated with Ricky from Sr's tutelage because Manny took advantage of the straight forward attack and caught him in the first. After that, Hatton was on unsteady legs entering the 2nd round and ate it.

Floyd probably would have stopped Ricky earlier in a rematch because he already went 10 and figured him out. It would be an easier fight for Floyd a 2nd time around for sure.

Ricky wasn't a great boxer but he was a great fighter. His mauling style was hard for boxers with much more polished skills and a wider array of weapons....but against the two best boxers of his era, those limitations was his undoing.

When he faced Manny I don't believe at all he was depleted. He was back at the divison where he reigned supreme and had more motivation and confidence coming back after taking Floyd 10 rounds which saw him do better than anyone expected.

Ricky didn't take much punishment in that fight...he just got outboxed and got caught by a great check hook in the 10th that was picture perfect. Hatton wasn't cut or broken down, just exposed.

 

Ricky had very little time to show what he was capable of because Manny's style was terrible for Ricky. The combinations and speed surprised him and the right hook couldn't miss. A little over a minute into the 1st round, he was hurt badly and on the canvas....after that the fight was pretty much over.

It's hard to say that "it wasn't the same Hatton" because he never got out of the gate. I agree it was a bad time to switch trainers right before the PAC, but not many felt Manny would beat Ricky. Especially after doing as well he did against Floyd. Many thought Ricky would just be too big, too unrelenting and strong for PAC. Even here on ESB....Most posters were saying PAC was going to get knocked out. I believe Ricky's confidence spiked with going 10 with the best boxer in the world at that time and making it one of Floyd's most difficult fights. I think that would boost anyone's confidence.

 

In the first two minutes, you'll see a Hatton more deliberate and a shade flatter of foot, probing with a jab (poking it out there) and feinting. Old Hatton didn't stand on ceremony, he got his feet moving in short, springy, zigzagging steps and got to weaving his way onto your chest ASAP. It's relative, of course. He was still an aggressive, one-way fighter under Big Floyd, but the nuances were altered. Naturally, when he got knocked down, it all went to hell in a handbasket.

Aside from that, when I speak of Big Floyd slowing Ricky down, I'm not just referring to how fast or in which direction he moved, but the thought processes in a fight where fractions of a second make huge differences. And getting hurt complicates that issue even more. Hatton was encumbered by the new ideas more than he was benefited by them, and it was visible, you could almost see the cognitive wheels turning at times in his bout with Malignaggi (I cite that one because there are more rounds to view). Big Floyd admonished him for not remembering to do this or that after the Pac fight, but you can't successfully integrate everything Floyd was trying to get him to do and put it all together against elite competition after two awkward camps.

Hatton's confidence was anything but high as a result of going 10 with Floyd. He's confessed many times that it broke him mentally and almost killed him. But even without his testimony, a decline in his constitution was perceptible. He labored against Lazcano (that bout would fit nicely into CST80's "Let's Play... Jump The Shark" thread), seemed jaded, seemed easier to hurt. We can disagree on that, though, and also about the punishment he took against Mayweather. He was eating clean, precise, neck-snapping rights and jabs throughout the fight and was pounded on in the 8th. That adds up. That, and it was the culmination of a few fights' worth of attrition.

 

I was one of those who thought Hatton would do better against Pac considering I had the fight between Floyd and Hatton fairly close in the first half of the fight. But then he switched trainers. You're just not going to unlearn habits at that point in your career. He tried to change his style and Pac tore him a new one.

You don't change trainers if your confidence is where it should be. His loss to Floyd obviously affected his personal life which he says put him in deep depression.

 

Hatton with in the first 30 seconds ate a hard right hook that he walked into which immediately got his attention and slightly buzzed him..But if you look at the 1st round of Mayweather/Hatton and PAC/Hatton, you'll notice Ricky approaches both of them the same exact way...Straight ahead with a slight dip before shooting the jab....once on the inside, he attempts the left hook to the body. Sometimes he'll attempt the straight right hand without setting it up at all. That's just his rhythm...he has tendencies that one training camp wouldn't shed. The problem is Ricky attempted to fight Manny the same way he fought Floyd and they are two completely different boxers with different qualities.

If Ricky was more cerebral and cautious.....worked on setting something up vs Manny, he actually would have lasted longer than 1 1/2 rounds. Because it would have been less likely he would have been getting hit with the right hook so frequently. Floyd also had success early with the left hook.

Ricky was still shifting and feinting against Manny but he had a difficult time with the speed and power so early on that it set the stage for what was to come. What I saw from Hatton was the same old Ricky who couldn't fight any different. It's in his DNA to go forward and attack. How he initiates the attack is always the same....with subtle variations. His natural style is better suited for a guy like Floyd than a guy like PAC and that's the reason he had marginal success against Floyd and zero against PAC.

Ricky was very depressed after the loss...it was his first loss and that's always the toughest. But Ricky had been on record saying he had a lot of confidence going into the PAC fight because he was able to give the best boxer in the world a lot of trouble...and he didn't think Manny was big enough or strong enough to keep him from walking Manny down. He faced Floyd in 2007 and PAC in 2009 so he had time to break himself out of that depression and refocus on Manny. Before that he was riding a 2 fight winning streak as you touched on.

He really didn't take much punishment at all against Juan. He won almost every round, dominating the fight. Round 8 Juan landed a gnarly left hook to Ricky's balls that really took the steam out of him, but outside of that...Ricky pretty much battered Juan over 12, which set up the fight with Paulie before his showdown with PAC. Ricky barely lost a right in the two fights after his loss to Mayweather and most were saying they didn't see any residual effects from his loss at welterweight against Floyd.

 

That was a really dumb move on Ricky's part....but he really did respect Floyd's craft. Ricky always said Mayweather was a pr*ck, but when he talked about his skills....Ricky always said Floyd was the best. I think he thought by working with Sr...he might be capable of improving his defensive which wasn't all that great.

 

I respectfully disagree. Wanting or trying to do something and being able to do it are different things. He just couldn't put it together at that level, life came at him too fast. When a dyed in the wool mauler like Hatton tries to nuance what he does best against a speedy, combination punching ATG with pop, he's likely to fall apart quickly.

With regard to your opening paragraph, I wouldn't suggest that there were no momentary or general similarities between the Rickys. He didn't completely transform. But there were subtle departures that were clear enough to my eye.

Speaking of Manny's right hook, Hatton and Big Floyd mocked that punch in camp and spoke of legislating for it. That alone suggests they'd put study into techniques that Hatton would attempt to execute in the fight. Which makes sense. You don't hire a guy just to have him send you out with nothing new, or go out and make no attempt to incorporate anything he's trained you to do. Even Hatton, old dog that he was, wasn't that dense.

What happens is, you try and the level you're fighting at determines the degree of success you have.

He's also said that he was covering up a lot and that the confidence he expressed was (at least partly) for show. One thing he doesn't waver on is that he was at his best vs. Mayweather and less so against Pac.

"I don't think I was at my best when I fought Manny. I think I was more at my best when I fought Floyd."

"I will always wonder what might have been if I had faced Manny Pacquiao at my best."

"I can look back on the Mayweather fight and think I didn't do too bad. But with Pacquiao I will always wonder 'what if he got me at my best?'"

"I knew it would be hard (against Floyd), I knew I would have to be at my best. On the night, nothing worked."

But the eye test had already told me as much some years before he made those statements.

Lots of questions were raised after the Lazcano fight, I remember that very well, and many fans expressed concern over the performance in general, regardless of Ricky's workmanlike control of proceedings. He was relatively flat, and a fresh, active 140lber would've shown it up more, as opposed to a shopworn, blown-up, inactive vet.

He might not have taken a ton of punishment, but he seemed hurt by a particular left hook to the jaw that he would once have eaten without the distress signs, and that just added grist to the mill. Personally, I think the concern was vindicated by what came after. In September 2008, Ricky Hatton was focusing on career renaissance under a new trainer - within eight months, he was literally on his way out of the sport. Done. Finito.

While the Malignaggi fight brightened the spirits of Hatton fans for six months, and as much as I like Paulie, he had nothing to offer Ricky and was having the worst year of his professional prime with Buddy McGirt. It was easy to look good there.


All that said, if anyone wishes to think that Pacquiao faced Ricky Hatton in fine fettle and form, I don't begrudge them.

 

But you forget BOTH Castillo & Maidana really beat Matweather but got screwed by Vegas officials. Tony would have smashed him/ Heck Floyd messed hos pants im fear when he saw Tony walking toward him Its on U Tube watch it LOL