Is Perception Reality: The punching power of Joe Louis

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Dec 13, 2017.


  1. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    I went on a Louis watching spree this morning. I watched some of his fights and thought about how his punching power is put down in comparison to more modern heavies like AJ or Wilder. I think this is because KO's look more impressive in modern HD rather than grainy black and white where the fighters look like action figures on the screen.

    Take Louis 1st round demolition of Buddy Baer in 1942
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    Compare it to Wilder's 1st round demolition of Stiverne
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    Now, odds are, if you put Stiverne, especially that version in a time machine and sent him back in time to fight a prime Louis in place of Buddy Baer, Louis could repeat Wilder's 1st round destruction of Stiverne. But based on the above, how can one say that Louis wasn't in the class of modern day puncher's like Wilder or AJ?

    Further, odds are that Louis would likely stop Stiverne in 1 before Wilder would stop Buddy Baer in 1.

    Second, the big men that Wilder and AJ built their reputations on are on their best day, lucky to be as good as Simon, Buddy Baer, Carnera or Galento. It's not as if Wilder and AJ have been stopping a succession of prime Lennox Lewise's and Riddick Bowe's. The big men (for the most part) have been on the level of equal to or lesser than Abe Simon.

    If AJ stopped a 6'4 255 pound Abe Simon (who was a chiseled, in shape 255 pounds) the way Louis did, while scoring the obligatory knockdown's a long the way, it would be just another reason to worship AJ's punching power. You can argue that Louis stopping a fighter that size is more impressive given Louis was giving away 45 or so pounds while AJ would be about the same size as Abe Simon.

    Third, Wilder and AJ seem to have more impressive physique's than Louis. It's easy to mistake AJ for a bodybuilder and you get to see their physique's in modern HD color. But actually, Louis was really lean and chiseled at 197-207 pounds. Physique wise, he resembled more so Wilder than AJ. Louis had that lean, ripped wiry muscle more so than the heavy bodybuilder muscle. Therefore, since they have or seem to have better physiques than Louis, it follows that they therefore must hit harder.

    But is there any evidence on film that Louis can't match modern day heavies in punching power other than perception?
     
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  2. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I have never questioned Joe Louis`s power. I think that is insane to do. Joe is the reason the heavyweight title became what it was. He made it. Joe wasn't a perfect fighter but he was closer than most. I have heard and read questions about his chin perhaps or his ability to cut the ring against an elite all timer like Ali but his power? No way.
     
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  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Good post and points. There is or was,[ just booted,]a poster here who believes Walcott was a harder hitter than Louis, I do not agree with him.Louis smashed Paulino's gold bridgework to pieces, he drove Braddock's teeth through his mouthpiece and into his lips.He was a top notch hitter and just about the most correct heavyweight puncher I have seen.
     
  4. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    That video of Louis vs. Baer is one of the best boxing videos on the internet imo.

    His accuracy is bonkers (5:45)
    His punching power and mechanics are magical. As magical as something so brutal can be.
    Mayweather accuracy, Foreman power.
    Abnormal hand speed for such power.
    And someone who understood the ebbs and flow of boxing, and how to win in a diverse set of situations.

    His slipping, head movement and parrying in this fight is phenomenal.
    He doesn't stick to one maneuver, he mixes them all up, and uses what is needed at the moment. (6:01)


    I agree with and echo the sentiments of the thread.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
  5. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Look how Louis numbs Baer at 6:03 with a short overhand that doesn't even land flush.
    Baers body reacts to the punch the way a middleweight should react to getting hit by a power punching heavyweight. His entire body turns and he goes numb.

    Even I can ****ing feel that punch from here, damn.
     
  6. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Power doesn't solve all problems all the time or even consistently. In fact it can be argued it's not even a top 5 factor in successful boxing.

    Joe Louis had more than enough pop in his punches to succeed at any level in any era of the sport. And we know his name because he had bevy of other assets to his game.
     
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  7. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    The sound of Baers head crashing into the canvas at 8:05 after that uppercut-hook is disgusting.
    Especially when you realize you're hearing it through antiquated muffled audio.
     
  8. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Imagine what it was like being there and having a guy that size hit the canvas like that. You could probably feel it.
     
  9. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    OK. It must be stated that Baer is slow as molasses. Maybe because this is his last fight but he looks to lack all snap and telegraphs his punches from another zip code. Also, he had fought Louis before. What gave him the idea that giving up his height and reach advantage and crowding Louis was a good idea? He purposefully and obligingly enters Louis' wheelhouse with nothing more that brute rough-housing. That's not a great tactic against a guy who was the greatest mid and inside sharpshooter the division ever saw.
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I see what you are saying but Baer wasn't a stick and mover,and Louis was too quick for him to ever outjab him so apart from trying to turn it into a brawl utilising his size ,strength, and weight, what alternatives did he have?
     
  11. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    The odds are Louis would beat Wilder in one round too. And no guarantee Wilder could beat Baer.
     
  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Yet Baer is twice as functional as Stiverne was against Wilder.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I wouldn't be at all surprise to see Wilder drop Louis.
     
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  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Wilder can certainly wack. I suppose any puncher should be treated with respect. You can’t rule anything out.

    I just think Joe could get through and make an immediate impression on Wilder. The adjustment would be too much for Wilder to cope with. Too much of a gulf in class at this point of Wilders career. It’s not Deontays fault. Lack of opposition means Baer and Simon would be more serious threats to Wilder than they were to Louis.
     
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  15. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Don't sign for a second asswhuppin'?

    His tools and approach make him tailored for Louis.
     
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