Why Prime Mike Tyson beats a 70s George Foreman

Foreman hit noticably harder and was much more of an offensive force in there, not to mention infinitely superior.

I don't Tyson bobbed and weaved nearly as much as some seem to make out. You don't ingrain that sort of thing for year after year after year then suddenly lose it because Joe Bloggs left camp.

 

Yeah right

 

No..... Foreman turned down offers from Don King to fight Tyson

 

When Tyson had Kevin Rooney from 1985-88, it would be the no 1 thing he would constantly be on Tyson's ass i.e. to move your head, he even did that during fights especially middle to late rounds. Naturally losing someone who was a tough task master was going to have consequences.

 

Not real sure how that pertains to what I said, but for shits and giggles I'll entertain a counter point:

George Foreman is using posture and position fighting while allowing himself the freedom of obtuse power shots to mess with the opponent's line of sight. That is to say Mike may struggle more than you're used to seeing plotting a inside course to Foreman and might find himself on a bad side of short hook disguised by wallops.

It's kind of an old trick for guys who lack pedigree or finesse. It's why Marciano, Foreman and Wilder alike all clearly get better at their game throughout their careers but never remove windmilling from their repertoire. The basic idea is this, throw a punch that forces the opponent to take their eyes off your other hand or guess the trajectory. Some punches have even been refined and I'd question if it's even fair to call them a windmill anymore or rather a phantom like any other line of sight phantom, like an overhead.

In his later years he used his posture much more than his windmills to disguise his intentions giving Foreman a more refined look, but he never completely dropped them and for good reason, windmilling can be effective, and can actually be especially troublesome for any style that is depending on or counting on its opposition being refined.

Watch for the odd good punch amongst the windmills. I don't mean effective or landing, I mean structurally good as well as accurate, and effective. Those don't come from nowhere. We've all seen untrained youtube fighters. Guys who don't know how to hook never throw a perfect hook in with the swings, they just swing. Wilder, Foreman, and Marciano are not the case. If you look at the windmill punch they will hit you with a perfect shot. That's why Marciano look like a bumbling fool in videos then when you check out the KO still photograph the KO punch is absolutely flawless. That's because their is guile and purpose in those windmills. He breaking down their line of sight until he can find a way to hit them with something they can't see coming. He being all three men. If you don't look at the windmill then you've to guess it's trajectory and the first mistake you make may be your last. It's actually a very difficult juxtaposition.

That said, are you so sure Mike peek-a-boo is a credit in this match up and not a deficit? Are you sure giving Mike something easy and obvious to duck isn't the perfect bait to ease Mike onto the money shot? Foreman is going to give him legitimate openings Mike can take advantage of but when he does Big George will catch him and between the two George will have the more advantageous momentum and control the pace of the fight.

 

So McCall and Rahman only landed 1 punch on Lewis. get off his rectum.

 

You're right. It would've KOd him as well. Excellent observation.

 

Lol keep dreaming. Tyson ALMOST NEVER moved his head in late rounds. Only time I remember him doing it consistently was against Douglas.

 

One punch which knocked him out for sure.

 

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Sure you can. Have you ever boxed or played sports?

 

I've boxed a bit and played various sports at decent levels yes. Once things are deeply ingrained into your muscle memory they almost become secondary. Most golfers take hundreds and hundreds of swings to get out of previous bad habits and often have to feel like they are going a mile to achieve an inch.

 

Well a great jabber like Holmes used to be told all the time to stick that jab out etc etc. Do you think he wasn't going to unless he was told? Sure in the heat of the battle things can get lost but if one is a bob and weave fighter he really should be bob and weaving.

I used to believe in the Rooney Tyson with all the bob and weaving but closer inspection showed things to be somewhat exaggerated. It also comes a lot easier when one is on top. I recently re-watched the entire Tucker fight and truth be told Tyson didn't bob and weave as much as i used to think. Sure he was superb at it but it was hardly non stop, particularly once the rounds piled up.

 

It's weird, i used to debate Unforgiven all the time whom i believe i was a level or two hard on Tyson but i'm almost missing his input at the moment even if i did think it was slightly harsh

It would help bring these threads back towards the middle ground a bit.

 

Ok then. So you understand that once Mike stopped doing things that got him to the top, it doesn't matter how well you did it before, if you stopped doing it as intensely or as much as before it will be different. I've sparred and played soccer (futbol) for years. With soccer, at the peak of my prime I took a few months off, had a new coach, and stopped doing the things that made me the best I could be. New training, I might add. I couldn't do the things I did before, yet I was older and wiser and should've been peaking. But I passed my peak and never got back there. Ever.