Please rate Cleveland Williams?

One of the top punchers of all time.

 

In pure power terms not specially accurate etc and here is where ends his history. Mediocre fighter

 

Well that's your opinion.
Williams was ranked number 4 when he was shot,I kinda think that may have impacted somewhat on his legacy.

 

He was shot in the gut point blank with a large caliber revolver and ended up losing a good section of his intestinal track from surgery, I believe. He withered away in the hospital and lost a ton of weight from what I recall reading. Of course he was never the same after that, who would be?

 

Williams fascinates me. His career stretches all the way from the post war Joe Louis era to joe Frazier. He fought men that fought Joe Louis and he lost to men that fought George Foreman.

His career had about four stages.

I think first time around he was a project groomed for title fight like billy Fox. A lot of set ups until they brought him to New York as a 28-0 prospect. With this bogus record His management must have pulled extraordinary strings to get him a spot on the undercard of Marciano v Lastarza in the polo grounds. It backfired. He was bady exposed by 7-3 novice who knocked him down twice to hand Williams his first loss.

But Williams reversed that loss and stayed busy at a lower level until his career fizzled out Altogether when he was obliterated by Bob Satterfeild, his first name opponent who was 25lb lighter than Williams and 1-2 in his last 3 fights. This walloping caused a two year break from boxing.

Relaunched, Williams again built a record flattening stiffs until Sonny Liston exposed him in exactly the same way Satterfeild had. However, this fight made Williams. Even though it had been a shattering loss williams managed to somehow go down as a guy with world class punching power and when he got going again he now had a reputation as “the guy who hurt Sonny”.

To be fair, This time around, 1961-1963 williams was a legitimate heavyweight. He had 15 fights between his first loss to Sonny and a split decision loss to Ernie Terrell and apart from another walloping from Sonny his record was as good as any other contender not quite good enough to become champion. His opponents were a lot better too. He even drew with Eddie Machen. His best win was possibly against Billy Daniels. But he was at least facing all the same kinds of guys the other contenders would beat and he was still winning legitimately.

Not bad for a guy Initially fast tracked as a Marciano challenger ten years earlier.

But after that run Williams was shot by a policeman and there were no more good wins left in him. The rating he had before the shooting and careful matchmaking kept him winning long enough to get a crack at Ali but he beat nobody of note at all from losing to Terrell to losing to Ali another obliteration of many knockdowns like the Satterfeild and Liston beatings.

So overall the period of his career worth looking at is 1960-63. Nothing else really counts. In that time he was just behind Terrell and level with Machen. Which is actually good going because only Patterson, Liston, Ingo and Ali were better than those guys.

I would put Williams about as good as Doug Jones and Zora Foley. Where ever those guys get rated in the top 100 heavyweights Williams can match them. So that’s pretty good.

As a puncher I rate Williams like Dwayne Bobick. A good puncher who blew out the stiffs but never the contenders.

 

Which of his crushing knockouts impressed you the most?

 

Foreman listed williams as one of the hardest punchers he ever fought, along with Cooney and Lyle.
When I watch williams fight, it seemed like he was a bit of a glass cannon, not a great chin, not dazzling with too much but incredibly powerful puncher with good size, he also always showed up looking like he was more in shape than anyone he fought.
I think if he got the shot instead of Liston he would defintly beat Patterson through sheer brute force. I also did hear Patterson or his handlers had him duck williams and other power punches.
I think he's up there in the hardest hitters of all time, but lost the 3 most important fights of his career, he made a great opponent for liston and I am a huge liston fan. But I would list williams as great but not legendary

 

Yes, Mcvey can tell us!

Williams could punch, but his he only Ko'd one top contender ranked in the top ten, and Terrell might not even had been ranked when he did it.

Williams stood out in his time. He was a big man and a puncher in a time of few, and fought way too many journeyman.

More often than not the best he fought went the distance with him or beat him.

 

What is the basis for saying he was being fast tracked as a challenger for Marciano,where can I read about this?

Before he was shot Williams beat Rischer no 8 and Miteff no 8.

 

A bit like the 60's version of Tommy Morrisson. Had a devastating punch but was lacking in other areas, and was very unlucky with being shot. But he still managed to beat one of Frazier's challengers shortly after Joe himself did long after that injury.

 

He is one of those fighters that is inherently hard to rate.

The gym rats and contemporary fighters, saw him as this head to head monster.

He was feared.

His record doesn't back up what they were saying, but it doesn't disprove it either.

 

Yes he was feared ,perhaps that why there aren't that many big names on his resume.They wouldn't fight him!

 

ponce Deleon fought him twice. Sylvester Jones fought him twice. Roosevelt Holmes fought him twice. Billy Daniels fought him twice. Liston fought him twice. Terrell fought him twice. Frankie Daniels fought him twice. Mac Foster fought him twice.. there is no shortage of men brave enough to fight Williams twice!

The best men he fought were

Ali
Liston
Terrell
Machen
Satterfeild
Chuvalo
Mac Foster
Al Blue Lewis
Al Jones
Bob Cleroux
Roger Rischer
Billy Daniels
Alex Miteff

His record against these guys is 4-11-1 and he suffered two knockdowns against Satterfeild. Four knock downs against Foster. Four knockdowns against Liston. Three knockdowns against Ali. Two knockdowns against Al Jones. That’s 12 times he was hammered to the canvas against the best 13 men he fought.

 

Yes, this was during the spell where Williams was a capable contender between 1961 and 1963. But it’s very slim pickings.

Brian London did a better job on Rischer. In fact one guy that beat Williams was flattened by jack Bodel.