Mike Tyson and adversity

You bring up some good points. Particularly that Tyson had a helluva chin. I’d even say his chin was better than Lewis’s, by far.

My issue with Tyson is that he pales in comparison to almost all the great to very good HWT champions, before and after his time, when it comes to his inability to EVER snatch victory from the jaws of defeat or avenge a loss. Louis accomplished the feat multiple times. Marciano, Patterson, Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis and AJ all did the same.

I always felt Ruddock was terrified of Tyson. As heavily muscled as he was and his tension worked against him in two respectable fights. I also believe if Ruddock could’ve fought more relaxed, ala Toney or Byrd, he might have been able to pull off the upset.

Any objective observer knows that Lewis gets NO free passes, especially from his detractors and Bite Tyson Lovers. On the other hand, Tyson’s whole life since Cus D’Amato has essentially been a free pass. The only exception to this FACT is his questionable **** conviction.

 

I know you like to shift around in circles, when it has been pointed out to you Tyson snatching victory from the jaws of defeat, you then pinpoint it doesn't count because it was against fighters who werent ATG. First of all a fighter deserves maximum credit when 99% of the times he is not even close to defeat and second of all Tyson has snatched victory from the jaws of defeat so you are wrong there as well and you know it.

Again, see, you are making all sorts of excuses to deny Tyson any credit what so ever. Ruddock was not terrified of Tyson at all otherwise he wouldn't demand a rematch and he wouldn't be trading with him. Ruddock was a highly feared fighter and avoided fighter at the time and Tyson fought him twice in non-title bouts.

Lewis has had the same amount of sponsors that Tyson has had in his career.

 

Nice try Macklemore, but I never called Berbick a bum. The only thing I said is that he was not on Bowe’s level. This was in reference to my praise of Holyfield for risking his belts and undefeated record against a prime Bowe. When you tried to include Sammy Scaffa in that group of bigger men that Tyson beat, I laughed at you and told you it was an insult to honest champions like Berbick, Bonecrusher, and Pinklon Thomas. FACT.

Tyson was washed up in 2002. I never claimed he wasn’t. Everyone knows he was fighting to stay one step ahead of his creditors after his friends Rory Holloway and John Horne used him up and helped him squander his career earnings. FACT.

Tyson’s status as a washed up fighter and his losses to Williams and McBride are way WORSE than Pacquiao’s loss to Horn and they’re infinitely WORSE than Leonard’s losses to Norris and Camacho. Although I don’t think Horn deserved the decision against Pacquiao, and his time as champion will end sooner than later, he is way more accomplished than Williams and McBride. I won’t provide the same background on Norris and Camacho since I believe it to be overkill.

I have no reason to question Pacquiao’s and SRL’s abilities as they relate to adversity. Pacquiao and SRL both accomplished something that your idol NEVER did: Pacquiao avenged his loss to Morales and SRL snatched victory from the jaws of defeat versus Hearns.

I gave you my theory for Douglas choosing to face your idol’s Master (Holyfield) rather than pursue a rematch. It wasn’t an attempt to avoid facts. However, the FACT remains that your idol acted like a sore LOSER.

I agree with your statement that Tyson and King went through proper channels to protest the 13 second count. However, I feel Douglas is justified in his decision to forego the rematch with Tyson. After all, given his newfound status as “The Man Who Beat The Man”, Tyson was in no position to dictate anything. Instead of acting like a SORE LOSER, he should’ve humbled himself to do whatever it took to ensure his chance at redemption.

According to you, Lennox acted like an @55hole towards Rahman after his defeat. The difference is that his approach worked on Rahman, whereas Tyson’s approach failed with Douglas. Allow me to point out two more differences.

1. Rahman was NOT a 42-1 underdog like Douglas.
2. Lennox avenged his defeat, which is something your idol NEVER did.

I have nothing against Tyson. I just don’t think he’s as great as you and the rest of the Tyson Apologists do.

There are things much worse than being a “Lenni” fan. After all, he never:
- mugged old ladies.
- cowered when confronted by a significant smaller man (Atlas) who accused him of molesting an 11 year old.
- bragged about sleeping with/sharing a bunch of groupies with his “good friends” Holloway and Horne.
- lost to Holyfield.
- bit another fighter.
- lost to a fighter as bad as Williams and McBride.
- squandered his career earnings.

He also never begged a man for a fight (good payday) during a post fight interview, like your idol did following his thrashing at the hands of “The Pugilist Specialist.” This right here should tell you exactly what Tyson thinks about his fans. His performance against his Master was dreadful and he still had no shame in expecting you guys to pony the dough to watch him in a rematch that NOBODY in their right mind would’ve given him a chance to win.

I don’t care how badly Savarese beat Douglas or how quickly your idol beat Savarese. The FACT of the matter is that Douglas kicked your idol’s @55 as a 42 to 1 underdog...FACT!

 

Bowe's level is over rated because he avoided all the big punchers roaming around in his era and Golata beat the **** out of him in 2 brutal wars and a washed up Tyson forced Golata to quit on his stool in 2 rounds. I only bought Sammy Scaff into the discussion because he was a 265 lb man, Bruno was 247 lbs, Razor Ruddock was 240 lb, Golata was 240 lb, i could go on but Tyson is perhaps the only small heavyweight who showed how to beat big heavyweight in style and Riddick Bowe showed plenty of evidence of going into that category as well.

You cannot claim Tyson was a washed up fighter during the time period the losses to Williams and Mcbride occurred and then use the Williams and Mcbride losses against him at the same time. In fact no one even remembers those losses to be honest because they came right at the end of his career and all great fighters end up losing their final fights and the fights against Mcbride and Williams has no significance.

You have already been told that Tyson snatched defeat from the jaws of defeat against Tillis, Ruddock, Botha (just like SRL, Pacquiao, Lewis, Holyfield did in their careers) and that is a fact so i have used your rules against you and this debate about Tyson ever overcoming adversity is over.

Tyson and his camp vis a vis Douglas acted no differently than Lewis vis a vis Rahman where Lewis dragged Rahman to court to prevent Rahman from fighting any other opponent before rematching him and used all sorts of derogatory comments like "That was a lucky punch wouldn't you agree Hashim?", "The belts are on loan" and i remember his comments against Mccall in 1994 "Oliver Mccall is not really all that, He just got a lucky punch and help from the referee" and who can forget Lewis's post fight interview against Vitali "Look at the state of his face". Apart from the appeal against the 13 second controversy, Tyson and his camp made no negative derogatory comments about Douglas.

Which throws the theory about Lewis being a lethal unbeatable fighter out of the window if Rahman was favored to beat him and not much of an underdog

Avenging a defeat to a D level fighter means nothing especially given that you should not have lost to him in the first place. Everyone in the history books knows exactly how Lewis lost his fights, it is not like he was rematching a Muhammad Ali, George Foreman. Tyson doesn't need to rematch anybody because everyone knows how good he was at his best versus those opponents.

Lewis was also **** scared to take action and be aggressive against an Oliver Mccall who wasn't even there mentally in the fight and was ripe for the taking.

Sure you don't. We believe you. Keep it up

You are free to your opinion but don't expect others not challenge it.

I bet this comes under your perverted logic of battling adversity?

Atlas fired a gun next to his ear and the last i checked it was Atlas who was forced to leave camp whereas Tyson was still there. I bet this comes under your perverted logic of battling adversity as well?

Yes, no boxer has never slept around before right. I bet this comes under your perverted logic of battling adversity as well?

Yes, boxers win and lose matches, no disgrace in that. It is a bigger disgrace to be knocked out like a chinny over protected little girl like Lenni has actually done twice to D level fighters.

In response to Holyfield's well disguised headbutts, low blows, elbows, knee and groin kicks.

End off his career as you said when he was a washed up fighter. Doesn't really count for much to the general boxing public.

Like most boxers end up doing. He is actually doing pretty decently financially and is actually debt free now.

Everyone knows that the fight in 2002 had no real credibility, the pugilistic specialist i.e. your master is still having to defend that victory and give it credibility to this day. Tyson did not want any rematch against him and the proof lies in the fact that no rematch b/w them took place.

Tyson went down in a hard fight and survived 10 brutal rounds of punishment unlike your chinny girl who got starched twice to single shots to the face and laid down and looked like an over protected girl who had never been in a real street fight. Douglas avoided the rematch and he wasn't going to get lucky twice.

 

I feel I should give you a standing ovation for being Tyson’s biggest fan. Considering your idol has mad respect for his Master, even if “Lenni” had to beat it into him, I don’t understand why you hate The Pugilist Specialist so much. Watch this video for evidence of your idol’s respect for his Master.

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Go to the 3:50 mark and note how your washed up idol BEGS his Master for anoher payday. Kind of like a DOG begs its Master for table scraps.

Given Tyson’s popularity, which I have acknowledged far exceeds his Master’s, you should be thankful that The Pugilist Specialist is a compassionate competitor and chose to ignore your idol’s desperate pleas. I’m glad he did too since I’m sure you and the rest of Tyson’s Apologists would accuse The Pugilist Specialist of picking on a washed up fighter. Since it seems Lewis has properly managed his earnings AND had already proven his Mastery of your idol, he chose to spare Tyson an unnecessary rematch (pointless beating).

You never did tell me what you think about your idol’s willingness to fleece the fans by begging Lewis for a rematch of a fight that he had ZERO percent chance of winning. I look forward to your answer on this and hope you won’t leave us all hanging, especially since you stated “Tyson did not want any rematch against him and the proof lies in the fact that no rematch b/w them took place.”

In the meantime I’ll tell you that I think your idol’s willingness to go through the motions, while asking viewers and his fans to pay at least $54.95 in PPV fees, confirms Atlas’s accusations that your idol lacks character AND is a phony.

I tried to throw you a bone by acknowledging Tyson’s status as a washed up fighter when he lost to Williams and McBride. Unfortunately, you couldn’t see it that way through your blind hatred of The Pugilist Specialist aka Tyson’s Master.

 

There you go again, calling a person i.e. Tyson whom you say you apparently "like" a dog, tells me more about your upbringing to be honest. The fact of the matter is that the rematch did not happen because Tyson did not want the rematch and changed his mind about it because he knew he was too washed up to compete against a fighter like Lewis who was in his prime and didn't want to take another fight again which he knew he was going to lose at that point in time.

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/may/09/sports/sp-boxing9

Lewis actually sued Tyson for $385 million for backing out of the rematch. So now you are going to accuse Tyson of backing out of the rematch and not being a warrior? Or you are going to commend him for not fleecing the public? Your master had every intention to fight the rematch and he wanted to give Tyson a rematch but did not want to give Vitali a rematch. Speaks and says everything about Lenni.

I am pretty sure you get plenty of bones from your master and he will reward you more and more for your efforts over here to keep him as relevant and credible as possible

 

Since you’re no better than I am and your opinion carries no greater weight than mine I have the freedom to characterize your idol as all BULLY and all DOG. In reviewing Tyson’s fistic achievements AND his behavior outside the ring, I nodded in agreement with Atlas’s assessments that your idol lacks character AND is a phony.

As you pointed out, Tyson built a fearsome reputation that preceded him in MOST of his fights. As a result, MOST of his opponents walked to the ring as scared as a man walking to the gallows and quickly lost to your idol. I see nothing wrong with that and believe it to be a great warfare tactic. This falls into the category of winning the war before you commence battle. Mad props to your idol for that.

On the other hand, discounting the pathetic losses to Williams and McBride, both honest fighters, but far BELOW the caliber of fighter who ever beat washed up versions of Louis, Patterson, Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Holyfield, Pacquiao, and SRL, Tyson met resistance on 4 occasions in the form of men who refused to be intimidated by your idol’s BULLY tactics. Instead they thoroughly kicked his @55.

Douglas did so as a 42 to 1 underdog. Again, 28 years later, this upset reigns supreme as THE “where were you when this happened” sporting event of our lifetime.

As for Holyfield and Lewis, both of whom are Masters of your idol, they brought out the DOG in your idol. Holyfield did so by kicking Tyson’s @55 in a fight that opened with him as a 25 to 1 underdog. Then in the rematch, he was on his way to repeating the feat when Tyson bit him twice, like a DOG, to get out of the fight. When confronted by the Pugilist Specialist your idol jumped the gun and acted like a DOG before they ever made it to the ring. As you know, the Pugilist Specialist got even on fight night and euthanized his DOG, much like a Master might do to a DOG who bites the hand that feeds him.

In closing I’d like to thank you for the article. I never knew the Pugilist Specialist was complicit with your idol in an attempt to fleece the fans. Luckily for the fans, Tyson went back on his word. For once his lack of character benefited the majority instead of just himself.

Assuming your idol didn’t go back on his word, do you honk he would’ve been able to beat Oleg Maskaev? For the record, I don’t.

 

Of course Tyson could battle through adversity, i mean he raped Miss Washington after she screamed "No!!"

 

Unfounded allegations.

 

Sure but feel free to be countered

Sure, i am pretty sure Atlas came to that assessment after Tyson refused to leave Cus and have Atlas as his only trainer. Everybody knows how credible he is.

There is nothing wrong with this reputation at all. In fact it is what adds to his legendary appeal and legendary status. I am pretty sure that many fighters would love the aura of invincibility and feeling that the entire world was scared of them and feared getting into the ring with them.

But this a myth that most fighters Tyson fought were scared of him before turning up in the ring against him. For every Spinks, Alex Stewart, Frank Bruno there is a Jesse Fergusan, Mitch Green, James Tillis, Bonecrusher Smith, Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, Razor Ruddock e.t.c.

1 loss occured when Tyson was not at his best, 1 loss occured when Tyson was ring rust and past his prime and the rest of the losses occured when Tyson was shot. The entire world knows it and the Tyson hate club know it.

Yup Douglas has lived off that event for the rest of his life. I heard of a book signing event that both Tyson and Douglas were invited too. Literally everyone swarmed Tyson's desk and no body wanted to even have a photo taken with Douglas or speak to him. That's what boxing fans think of him, the reality of what he did that night.

The only Master the Pugilist Specialist might be is yours. The entire world knows that Tyson was not at his best for the former and completely shot for the later which is what your master is a master off i.e. fighting shot fighters to pad his resume and leftovers.

I know for a fact that if your master didn't go back on his word, he would have not been able to beat Vitali Klitishko, his lack of character in that situation definitely benefited himself and no one else in that situation.

 

Unfounded allegations hey, enough to put him in the slammer......

 

FYI, UFC2015 will defend Tyson’s honor through thick and thin. Despite his accusation that I hate Tyson, which is not true, I have always had my doubts about the legitimacy of Desiree Washington’s case.

I remember her pageant interview where she said her ideal man was athletic. I believe it was the very FIRST trait she mentioned. Not smart, thoughtful, blah, blah, blah, and athletic. But athletic, blah, blah, blah. Based on his fistic achievements to that point, I believe Tyson fit Ms. Washington’s description of an ideal man perfectly.

I understand the concept of her body, her choice, but she can’t be that naive. When she went to his room at 3AM, she had to suspect that Tyson did not invite her to his room for Bible study.

My 2 cents.