Is Arguello as great as Chavez?

Sorry mate, read that as 5!! Ganigan was an enormous hitter but so was Rosario, and Edwin was a much much better fighter. Ramirez also had Alexis down while going the distance in a disputed decision. Most people score this fight for Ramirez.

Elizondo went 7 with Alexis and Rosario whupped him in under 2 minutes. The guy was a BOMBER. Man could he punch. Even in a loss his yo yo'ing of Ramirez in their second fight was a sensational display of power.

 

When you are talking dream fights with peak ATG's involved plenty of fights will go the distance. It's pretty basic, when the level of competition steps up the stoppages step down. This has been verified throughout the history of boxing.

Don't get me wrong, plenty of ATG vs ATG matches absolutely promote a stoppage prediction. Examples might be Tyson - Foreman, Tyson - Frazier, Foreman - Marciano etc. Many ATG's have great skills and chins however and stoppages are unlikely at times.

Via your theory Monzon and Hagler both stopped the majority of those they faced. Do you think there would be a stoppage in a match between these two excepting if e.g. Hagler cut?

 

What?!?!?! Your wishlist is missing a few must haves:

1. More compelling PBC cards
2. More versions of the WBC belts.

Since they already created Silver, Diamond, and Eternal versions of the title, I think there’s room for others. Perhaps Platinum, Cubic Zirconium, Gold, Bronze. It’d be great for collecting sanctioning fees. Oops, I meant the addition of new titles would improve competition and create opportunities for amateur stars to fight for a title in their 1st or 2nd fight without screwing over top 10 contenders who have grinded hard to get in position for a title fight.

 

I think the 1970-73 Monzon stops Hagler. He was a monster before the hand problems. BUT, I also am on record as saying that in my lifetime, after or along with Duran, Monzon is the greatest fighter I saw live or on tv in my lifetime. So my opinion on prime time Carlos Monzon may be different than others. But of course that's what we're all on this site for.

 

For sure mate, to each his own. I like to chase a bit of balance and perspective.

How would you see Monzon achieving a stoppage over Hagler? how do you perceive it happening?

 

Monzon was the greatest pinpoint puncher I ever saw. He was also the best at using his height. Everybody thinks Hagler was this great puncher. He wasn't. He was a boxer. Monzon nails him coming in, keeps him outside with the jab and nails him with that right hand. Monzon's right makes little Hearns rgt feel like a slap. Monzon was so strong. Great defense and boxing. Most of all he was resolute and let NOTHING bother him. Paranoid Hagler would just be finally overwhelmed by hurtful punches and stopped in the late rounds. That's what I think.

 

NOBODY stops prime Chavez at 130-140, NOBODY!

 

I think he is.

 

Chavez fought a lot of non-title fights against bad fighters just to stay busy and milk his record a bit.

So, yes there is filler on his record.

But, at the same time, Chavez fought a very high level of competition, especially at 130 and 135 lbs. At 140 lbs, the comp. was a little lower except for the great win over Meldrick Taylor.

 

I doubt he would stop Chavez at 130 lbs.

Of course Arguello was a great puncher but if you had an awesome chin, you could last against him.

Bazooka Limon was stopped on cuts in the 11th round but wasn't staggered or knocked down.

Escalera took Arguello deep into the championship rounds.

Both those guys faced Arguello at 130 lbs.

I never saw Chavez hurt until the first Randall fight at 140 lbs.

At the same time, fighters with great chins could last against Chavez. Laporte, Lockridge, and even Dwight Pratchett, who was limited but had a great chin, lasted against Chavez at 130 lbs.

So, I think Arguello/Chavez is a distance fight.

 

Both Chavez and Arguello were both involved in two legendary fights
that will forever stand the test of time. Both these fighters defined
greatness the way they fought in the ring and their accomplishments.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that Arguello was the equal of Chavez. Chavez had the more impressive stats (87-0, more title defenses overall) but Arguello was a great featherweight, probably the best 130 pounder ever and a dominant lightweight champ too and I think the quality of his opposition over his three title reigns was slightly higher than Chavez's, particularly at super featherweight. Like Chavez, he made one move north too many and lost to a great fighter in the process. They are both all-time top 30 p4p and probably next to each other in that list as they have similar achievements. A h2h in their respective primes would have been a classic.

 

Mayweather in the first fight buckled Chavez for a brief second.
Arguello hit to hard for Chavez. He would stop him.
Boza Edwards. Escalara TWICE. Bazooka.
Arguello stopped all of them.
Laporte almost beat Chavez. As a matter of fact some people thought he won.

 

Nobody is completely impervious to punishment and with enough pinpoint power shots from a big puncher, a stoppage has to be a possibility on the basis that you don't have to be dropped to be stopped. So on that basis alone, I can see Monzon having the power to stop Hagler and Arguello having the power to stop Chavez. But given both Hagler and Chavez's chins and skill levels, I don't think either is a likely scenario.

Either way, Monzon-Hagler and Arguello-Chavez are pick 'em fights. I'd favour Monzon over Hagler and Arguello (just) over Chavez and I don't say that with much certainty, but I'm pretty sure they'd both go to decisions.

 

One thing to add to comments about Chavez is that I actually don't think the 12 round era did him any favours. It's been said that he was a 15 round fighter in a 12 round era and I think that's true. The way he paced his fights and his style meant that the longer a fight went on, the better it was for him usually. One thing's for sure, if Chavez-Taylor had been a 15 rounder, there'd have been no controversy about the outcome, with or without Richard's Steele's stoppage.