Frank Bruno vs Floyd Patterson

How many times was Floyd knocked down in his career? Like 15 or so? More?

 

Yes, and how! Patterson completely flattened him in 4 rounds in London. England, September 1966. No cut eyes involved, only pin point punches. Can be enjoyed on You Tube.

 

Williams has a very live shot to stop Patterson. Plus, Bruno has more physical advantages, like longer reach and better technical ability than Williams. I'm not so sure I'd pick Williams to do as well against Lewis as Bruno did.

 

Patterson > Clay! lol.

 

Another fighter, I forget his name, he fought Shavers, Foreman and Bruno and said Bruno's one punch power belonged in their class. If Shavers or Foreman caught Patterson clean, what would be the likely result? Whatever the result, Bruno would likely reproduce that result if he caught Patterson clean.

 

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And yes, I know that this isn't a who's who of ATG heavies that Bruno is shown knocking out. But it does show his power and remember, the majority of KO's from those recognized as ATG punchers at any weight class are over those considered "cans" all the way to good contenders. Few have other ATG's as victims on their list. Shavers, perhaps the hardest puncher to wear a pair of boxing gloves has the overwhelming majority of his KO's over guys of the class that Bruno has his over.

 

People were picking Frank over Marciano for goodness sake.

 

I don't think saying he'd beat Patterson, a guy 35-50 pounds of muscular weight smaller than him is putting him up as an ATG. He was a good, world class contender, frankly more or less the same class as Johansson. Who, by the way, Patterson was the favorite over going into their first fight which ended up with Patterson being demolished.

There's debate over whether Patterson is an ATG. He certainly made boxing history. Many suspect that at light heavy, he'd have eventually turned out to be an ATG, but he never had more than contender level status at light heavy so he really can't be classed as an ATG at light heavy. Also, had the cruiser division been around, many suspect that he'd have been an ATG @ cruiser.

The argument against him being considered an ATG at heavy is that many think during his title reign he didn't take on and beat the best fighters of the division (which simultaneously is why Liston is considered an ATG at heavy, though technically speaking, Liston was a contender he was taking on and easily beating the best HW fighters of the time and many suspect had he became champion in say 1958, he'd have had a 5-6 year reign) and then his losses in or close to his prime to Liston and Ali which were blowouts or one sided beatings doesn't help much.

On the other hand, Patterson actually beat better fighters after his reign than the one's he defended his title against.

I think we have to be careful with saying that just because fighter X was an ATG and fighter Y wasn't an ATG that X should always be picked to beat Y without examining other relevant points like style, size difference etc. I think say, Joe Louis, would've stopped Bruno, but I think that Bruno would've been more competitive than many think. I think it would be incorrect to say that since Louis is an ATG and Bruno isn't, therefore Louis would just plow through him without any resistance.

With Patterson, it's more so his chin than anything else and the size difference, which sometimes, can overcome skill. After about 175ish-180ish, size can become less relevant but can still make or break the outcome of a fight, it just has less of a bearing than it would pitting a fighter smaller than that against a bigger man. It's why we can speculate that Marciano may have had a chance against Ali or Liston while at the same time denying a smaller, but more skilled 145 pound Sugar Ray Robinson (who is considered more skilled than Marciano, Liston and Ali) the same chance against a Liston or Ali.

I think say Ezzard Charles would have a better chance at out boxing Bruno than Patterson.

 

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There is reason to believe that Patterson hit harder

 

Wow... im not sure! One thing that hasnt been mentioned is that i dont think patterson is really a threat to bruno early. Bruno didnt have a good chin but he took quite a few clean shots vs tyson both times before getting stopped. Tyson hit considerably harder than patterson. Patterson could stun bruno early but he is not a big KO threat to frank in the first 5 rounds

 

You make very good points.

And I see what you mean about attributes but it’s been my experience that if you find a guy that represents the antidote to beat another the class still has to match up. It’s championship rounds that count. And I don’t think it did. I think Frank would beat Moorer. I think he would beat Michael Spinks. He would have beat Bonecrusher in a rematch. I would give Frank a better chance with Holyfeild that Foreman fought than I gave George. But without landing those fights and getting enough of those kinds of wins he didn’t progress to the kind of level Floyd was on.

I know Franks whole career. I know somebody who fought him. I followed him very closely. And there really was only great fighters that would beat him. The assets bruno had were good. Perfect jab. Good accuracy and he could really box. But levels were very very important. If a guy was a lower level than he was it was fine. Frank could excel so still reasonable fighters like Bugner, Williams and Tillis he dealt with fine. Against set up type guys that everyone fought Bruno often even did a better job on them than guys he would lose to. Also his match making and career timing was excellent. Coetzee was perfect career timing etc.

However, If the opponent was close to franks ability franks energy would drain out of him after 5 rounds. In fact after 5 he was not even half the force. He was perfectly placed to beat Witherspoon. There wasn’t anything Tim did better than Bruno apart from relax. And that’s all it took. Tim was not even in good shape.

So in theory Patterson could freeze up too. Like he did with Sonny and Frank could destroy Floyd under that circumstance. But Sonny was a much better fighter than Frank Bruno. Sonny could go right through the levels in class and take breathers staying relaxed. Liston did not drain off like Frank did. So I don’t see Floyd getting so unnerved with Frank.

Patterson could match a Tysons boxing performance on bruno without Tyson’s power. It was the sheer speed of Tyson that unsettled Frank as much as the extra physical strength and power. The explosive way Floyd fought his rematch with Johansson would be problematic for Bruno.

I see Frank being dangerous early but staying far too tense to do himself justice until the fatigue sets in. The fatigue that prevented him winning big fights with Smith, Witherspoon, Tyson and Lewis. Once that sets in all the physical advantage Bruno has goes and Floyd would exchange with him in the way he was able to with Chuvalo and Bonavena. His work rate would I think wear an already blowing Bruno down and stop him about round 13 like Holmes did Cooney who also drained down to a much less potent fighter after a few championship level rounds.

 

Patterson great boxing skills but he had a bit of Norton , Golota mentality
against big punchers. Yes Bruno might be cumbersome but he had serious
power and ram rod jab. Bruno size and power too much for Patterson.
Bruno ko in 3 rds.

 

Yes you are mistaken that Patterson's management, to be accurate, avoided Williams in the early 60's. Floyd was finishing off the Ingo trilogy in 60 & 61 when the return fight clause was written in stone then came the Liston fights. In August '58, it was another Texan, highly rated Roy Harris, the state champion who fought Patterson. Earlier that year, in London, England, Patterson boxed an exhibition with Dusty Rhodes, while on the same card, Cleve won on a D/Q over D?ck Richardson. A rematch was arranged but Williams pulled out at the last minute. Reason he gave was that he had received a "message from beyond!" No, The Big Cat, was never in the frame, perhaps he had fallen out with the spirit world!

 

All true. It was always an absolute nonsense that Williams was ever the leading contender to Floyd. He was rated highest when Sonny was champion but he’d already beat him. As you say there’s no way Williams was ahead of any of the guys Floyd fought.

And the story of Richardson spooking Williams is true as well.