Sonny Liston, head to head GOAT

I don't argue against Sonny being a hell of a fighter. He was. I only argue that even H2H he has to measure up above the guys he is rated over.

I give prime Sonny an excellent chance against all champions because at his best he was truly that great. However, in life, his prime was not duplicated as many times as other great champions ranked above him. I don’t have faith Liston could successfully defend a theoretical “ATG championship” against that many champions. So H2H I cannot believe he would be the best H2H GOAT.

It’s more likely somebody like Larry Holmes, Ali or Lennox Lewis. Sonny must rank below great fighters with longevity even H2H.

 

And the myth of Sonny Liston carries on for another generation.

 

Nonsense post.next

 

He fought Ali (and quit) seven months after the second Patterson fight.

Did his prime pass in those months?

I really can’t say that Liston ever actually had a prime. He had a nice year or two as a contender in 1959-60, sure, but ... that’s really it. Twice bombed out a scared-to-death Patterson (doubly scare because Cus made out Liston to be Godzilla and wanted Floyd to avoid him like the plague) who had weak whiskers (he made nondescript Ingo into a champ), but what else in Sonny’s resume is there to judge him on? The two Ali fights, of course, and he failed miserably in those spots.

 

Marciano,dempsey,frazier and tyson could not beat liston? Are you drunk?

 

I love watching the Liston pendulum swing back and forth over the years. If we could harness the energy of those shifts, it would be an unending renewable resource.

 

When you ask me a question like this? I either think you didn't read my posts or you meant to quote someone else? Never said that

 

I was responding to the post that I quoted.

 

Yes, he also has a rather thin resume. Point is that when reading some posts on here on him he seems like one of those creatures from greek mythology who would clean out today's and nearly any other hw era with his jab alone.

 

Faith in Sonny as an ATG top tenner was not unanimously realised until the internet. Right through the 1970s and most of the 1980s it was reckoned Sonny’s resume was too thin for inclusion.

 

Of course. Styles just do not favor them in this match up. I'd give Frazier, and Dempsey, the best chance.

 

Forget the styles. Liston was not like foreman he did not push his rivals,frazier,dempsey and tyson never had any problem avoiding a jab with the move of head.also prime liston weighed 208-212 pounds. Frazier being shorter and more compact weighed 205-210. Tyson 215-220. Jack weighed 190 but he had a big frame he was definitely naturally bigger and stronger than patterson despite the weight.i can't see liston handling these guys physically that easily . close competitive fights

 

Never forget the styles.

He didn't need to push his rivals to create room. He had that awesome jab to create room.

A Journeyman Ribalta, An over the hill Pinklon Thomas, An ancient Holmes, and Douglas say otherwise.

Prime Liston weighed 211-219 1/2 pounds.

Frazier never weighed 210 pounds in his prime. Or anywhere near that.

 

Sorry but is a total garbage post.
1.Prime tyson destroyed all the guys that you mentioned, so where is the proof of your point?.
2. You used a single fight of liston where he weighed 219 pounds in 1961 against howard king like if it was an usual weight for him, the fact is that liston looked inflated and overweight against clay at 218, liston weighed under 208 pounds TONS OF TIMES AT HIS PHYSICAL PRIME at25,26 and 28 years old for example.and his lowest weight was 198 pounds.
[url]http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/9031[/url]

You said that frazier did not weight 210 pounds in his prime right?
He weighed 210 against marion conner in 1967 at 23, he weighed 209 against bob foster in his absolute prime in 1970.
Plus he weighed 217 1/2 and 216 at 28 against ron stander amd terry daniels.
Of course now you will say that he was fat against stander etc,but i will post a photo where i prove tha he looked great even at 217 against stander.

[url]http://www.speedwayandroadracehistory.com/uploads/8/6/7/1/8671826/1950-s-playland-speedway-04-ron-stander-p-jerry-adams_orig.jpg[/url]

In few words... You said that prime liston did not weight under 211 pounds.you are wrong and i am right.
You said that frazier did not weight even close to 210 pounds in his prime and i proved that you are wrong and i am right.

And please... You know that all i said is truth and supported with facts and proofs so don't spend your time trying to argue without any motive

 

You used a weight for Frazier that he NEVER weighed in at his prime.

Frazier weighed 197

So Frazier was in his prime in '67

Nope their's speculation that the scale was a few pounds off.

Was this Prime Liston?

You said Liston weighed as low as 208 in his prime. You are wrong and I am right.