Joe Frazier in place of Tua ?

So your argument is that because Tua and Byrd were not yet considered elite when Ike beat them, his wins over them have no probative value for establishing how Ibeabuchi would fare against any fighter who was considered elite? If so, that's pretty silly.

FWIW, I wouldn't expect Quarry or Chuvalo to fare any better against Tua and Ibeabuchi than they did against Frazier.

 

yes, that and the actual eye test. Watch Frazier beating up Quarry and Muhammad Ali.

well not really. Before Tua all Ike beat was Marion Wilson and a bunch of nobodies who he looked no more impressive beating than a lot of other rank novice guys did at that time. Only win that stood out for Ike was Bryd and Tua. But something set him over the edge after those two unpredicted wins. He went crazy. Probably because of some reaction to Banned substance.

you think Tua and Ibeabuchi both stop Quarry and Chuvalo because Frazier did?

Ike against Tua was about Ron Lyle level when Quarry beat him. Like Ron Ike was a new kid on the block with big muscles and a 19-0 win streak. Ron had already beaten names like Manuel Ramos, buster Mathis and Larry Middleton who were all rated or fought champions. At that stage Ike had none of that. Before Tua Ike had fought 16 set ups. No names.

So I don’t make Quarry an underdog against Ike. Why? Based on what? The eye test? At 19-0 Ron Lyle has a better resume than Ike does. Quarry schooled him.

Why should Ike stop Chuvalo? He beat Quarry.

 

1973 Lyle did not have a better resume than Ike post-Tua and -Byrd, and Ike does better on the eye test imo. I was never as impressed by Lyle as some folks around here seem to be, but I can see the comparison.

 

Doctor Mongoose.lol

 

I can help you out here .You put a tape around the chest and wrist and note the number indicated on the tape.
What a lot of balderdash!

 

Which none of us have done with any of these fighters.

Everyone's arguing about numbers they don't even know are legitimate.

I'm sure the people who compile these "tales of the tape" didn't realize it was all so important.

 

I was talking pre Tua on the eve of his greatest win. Ikes record does not match 19-0 Lyle that Quarry beat.

For all we know, Tua would not beat Larry Middleton like Lyle did.

In fact Ike and Lyle are the ones who should be compared rather than Frazier and Tua. Ike and Ron are a closer match. Frazier and Tua are no closer to each other than Tyson and Bert Cooper. At least Lyle and Ike are the same level.

Frazier and Tua are the wrong level. Gulf in class is not bridged with artificial girth.

Or tape measure.

 

Oh it’s very important.

That’s why Mcvey won’t go anywhere without his tape measure...

 

Ron lyle was proved by far more than ike who is a complete nobody that never did beat anyone relevant,even his win over tua is debatable. Lyle did not avoid anybody,he did pretty well against foreman,shavers,ali,bugner,peralta,
bonavena,jimmy ellis etc
The eye test is trash, what really matters are the facts and the quality of your opposition

 

If tou look the kid tua at 18-19 at 201 pounds you can see that he had a wider thorax and much wider shoulders than marciano, marciano at 215 pounds would look a beach ball and tua looked great at 225. Seriously people stop arguing like stubborn when you know that you are wrong. Marciano was a smaller man

 

If you look at Tua at 201lb he is Similar to the Tongan Kitione Lave. They could be brothers.

Lave is listed at 6’0” and fought between 190 and 200lb in a 14 year career. Check him out. He is as big as you could expect Tua to get on a 1950s strictly orthodox boxing diet and training.

Without getting fat or bulking himself up I believe Tua would always resemble Kitione Lave a comparable sized man to Rocky Marciano.

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.u...-were-the-days-a-hard-hitting-story-1-4438413

 

Unless you have an X-Ray machine or can make out visible ribs of the entire torso, measuring a thorax on an eye test is going to be tough.

The truth is Tua was lean but soft looking at 201 with very little muscle definition, "skinny fat" is the phrase that gets used now.

Tua's build at 200-205 is not all that dissimilar from Maricano when he was at his 200-205 walking weight for photo shoots and what have you.

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/69/88/85/6988852a1b86dc6531ecdb36a775d66c--marciano-boxers.jpg

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Two 5'10 men with above average frames at 200-205, sporting similar builds should not be all that shocking. It's okay to admit this, because it's just the facts. It doesn't necessarily mean that Rocky would be a 250 killer today, that's a completely different argument with far more variables to consider. But it's pretty stupid to stubbornly deny a 5'11 athlete who looked fit over 190 could be muscular over 200 pounds, come on...that's almost the entire body building Hall of Fame.

 

Tua was fat.
Anyone can see that.

 

And frazier looks chiseled like a HW hagler?

 

No, Joe was often a bit fat himself.