If Ken Norton had Challenged Jack Johnson?

You sad old man. You can't read!

I said who were likely under 170 pounds. Ketchel and O'brien light. And there was a good chance Choynski was too, but his exact weight is unknown. Bottom line, these three small men were either 2-1 if you choose to use the primary sources which say O'Brien was the better or 1-1-1 vs Jack Johnson! Deal with it. I can think of no other good champion with at least 15 fights under his belt that would not be 2-0-1, 2-1 or 3-0 vs the same group! Please try to name good champion that would have results like this. You can't and won't/ HAHAH, KO'd by one punch, out boxed, and floored again... vs. super middle to men likely under the light heavyweight limit. Stop lying and trying to rewrite history.

According to more than one primary source, O'Brien out boxed Johnson. Gee, what would Ken Norton do? Ya think.

Ross sucked. I correctly quoted Box rec which shows he won 1 of his last 8 leading up to Johnson, and was Ko'd 4 times before meeting him as champion in 1909. If you can't take it, email them!

You cyber boxing zone reply is a joke as you are picking dates prior to Ross meeting Johnson in a lame attempt to make him look better. Integrity obviously is not something you're familiar with.

You want to use cyber boxing zone. According to them Ross had 15 fights from May 1907 to his meeting with Johnson in June 1909. How many of the 15 did he win? Just 3 of them, and don't get to excited over Ross beating Gardner, as it was his last fight. 3 for 15. WOW.

The fact that a guy like Ross can hurt Johnson with the only sold shot landed suggests a suspect chin, and the fact that Johnson could not finish him is a bit of a joke! Ross was Ko'd 4 times before and 10 times total in his career. The poor guys remains might sound like a sea shell. Yet Johnson could not finish him?

And your replies which try to spin things are jokes as well!

 

wa

You have no idea what they weighed as they did not weigh in.

I have the fight reports of the Ross bout which you have never read,yet you are arguing about the fight!
You don't know how many knockdowns there were, or who won the rounds,[Johnson won in a canter,] or what the local papers said about the fight,yet you hold court on the subject as though you are informed on it, when in fact all you know of the fight is contained in one line on Box Rec which BTW is WRONG!

I have the Piitsburgh Post and Pittsburgh Press's next morning ringside reports of the fight.You have Jack ****!Ross was btw fighting in his home state.

Just ridiculous!

 

a tough fight to call, but Johnson for me. I think he would know he needs to press the fight in order to get the KO or decision, and he would

 

Seems spot on to me. I get why Johnson is considered a "Great," but what I see on film wouldn't translate well against a modern fighter with Norton's offensive repertoire and physical talent.

 

I guess that I would end up picking Johnson, but I would be aware that he was facing a stylistic nightmare, and I would be ready to be proved wrong.

 

Fair enough, but again, are we to also believe Johnson wouldn't have a camp and time to train for a fight? When I match up fighters from other eras, often times if it's a "neutral" setting rules wise, then I'm assuming he'll have an actual camp to accommodate to the rules and setting. You can say Johnson's style wouldn't translate, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that for a few reasons. First, I would then have to assume Johnson doesn't pick up things very quickly, and second, isn't good at figuring out a weakness in a foe (something he seemed to be pretty good at). I have a hard time agreeing with either of those premises put forth. I see in Johnson, somebody who came up with an innovative style at the time, that worked great for him. Most didn't fight like him, so thus, he was a little innovative and used what worked best for him and against the foes at the time. Why would I believe he wouldn't do the same under a modern rules set when given time to train and adjust? I would be very confident in a fighter with the acumen of Johnson to do just that. Adjust his style to fight the time period and what would work best. That is just my opinion, but I understand your view and where that is coming from.

 

Don't get me wrong, Jack Johnson might well be my favourite fighter of all time and it's nice too him getting some love, but I have to go with Norton. The ruleset makes it slightly trickier to pick a clear cut winner, but I feel like I have to go with my gut on this one

 

Your opinion is as valid as anyone else's.

 

Norton matches up extremely well against Johnson .. unless Johnson was at s best he beats him like he edged Jimmy Young ..

 

Why do you still exist?

 

That's all a bit too speculative for me. And I think Johnson would need to pick up way more than anyone could possibly learn in one training camp, to deal with someone like Norton. What are Johnson's advantages in this one?

 

You saw what norton did to ali, put that man against a man not even a third the fighter Ali was like Johnson and it' going to be a short one sided clobbering

Norton by k.o. round 2

 

I'm not exactly sure what is speculative though bud. He was clearly innovative with the style he developed, and it was a style that clearly worked. That all wasn't happenstance, it was because Johnson was special, and imo would be in any time period. If you separate yourself so decisively from your era, there is a reason for that, and often times the reasons would translate in any era.

As far as where I think Johnson is better, I would say the following:

Reflexes
Defense
Ring Generalship
Durability
In-Fighting

I would also include stamina, but that is very hard to measure because the era's are so different. However, the above are good starting points to what advantages Johnson may have.

 

Good matchup....Johnson by decision

 

So again were comparing fighters almost 70 yrs apart? Theirs nothing on any tape that would indicate J.Johnson or any fighter from that era would be able to deal with any fighter from the late 30's on up. The fight game had changed. Their were no men weighing 165 lbs. Standing 5'9 fighting for heavyweight championships. Fighters were not fighting off their back foot with their hands at their waist, Ken Norton would destroy J.Johnson. and so would most of the second and third tier fighters from the 60's on up. Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey, great for their time, Mythology since.