Is Ken Norton a top 20 ATG Heavyweight?

I can sneak him in for sure

 

norton isnt ATG.

for sure HoF for dislodging ali. but nowhere close to ATG.


Should there even be 30+ HW ATGs?

 

With a sport that crowned its first accepted gloved champion way back in 1892, why not? 126 years have passed.

Its okay to have more than one great in a sport during a period of time.

I think Norton first win over Ali could have been a TKO if it was 15 rounds and he performed just as well as Frazier did in the trilogy with Ali.

Both got blasted by Foreman and beat Quarry, so their resume has a lot of similarities in it.

 

ATG should mean ATG, not a massive club of everyone with an application form. It is the pinnacle of the pinnacle.

no, they'd both have fought differently over 15 rounds.

those are the only similaritie and we examine what you said more closely, the 38 mothers on Foremans resume preceding them both ALL got on the whole blasted out by foreman, but aint no chump going to call any of them ATGs. You didnt think through your criteria.

 

I absolutely agree with this post. IMO he deserved the lineal title in September '76 and the kudos, legacy & immortality that goes with it. In addition to this, of all Ali's rivals it seems utterly appropriate to me that as the guy who gave Ali the most trouble would and should have been the one to end his reign.

In answer to the OP's question, it's touch and go. I like Matt McGrain's 100 top heavyweight list & I think Norton's number 22 ranking within is fair; however, if he'd gotten the decision in Ali 3 I think he cracks the top 20 for sure.

 

Hm, IMO 1 atg roughly per decade/generation is fair. So, there should be 10-15 currently I guess. Rest would miss out, like Mr. Norton.

 

I think Norton first win over Ali could have been a TKO if it was 15 rounds and he performed just as well as Frazier did in the trilogy with Ali.

Both got blasted by Foreman and beat Quarry, so their resume has a lot of similarities in it.

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Frazier wisely retired when he did. Otherwise, he'd have more losses.

Norton should be 2-1 vs. Ali, and has wins over Young ( who beat Foreman, and likely beat Ali on a good scorecard ), Quarry and lost a close one to a prime Larry Holmes.

Oh, there are more similarities. You just didn't look or know!

Norton beat Stander more impressively than Frazier did. If memory serves, Stander buckled Frazier's knees. He also defeated Tex Cobb and crushed Duane Bobick, so the resume is there for Norton. He was in there vs. top talent and fought a better collection of men in comparison to Frazier who never fought Holmes, Young, or Shavers. Or Cooney.

The 1998 holiday issue of The Ring ranked Norton #22 among "The 50 Greatest Heavyweights of All Time." I recommend buying this magazine, as the summary's, photo's and bios are excellent. The rankings outside of Holyfield at #3 and Lewis way back there are pretty solid.

You could argue top 20 for Norton. Top 25 no problem. Norton was robbed in the third match with Ali. Punch stats show how bad the judging was in a fight where no one was hurt. If Norton was officially 2-1 vs. Ali, he vaults up in the ratings a few spots, I think.

 

I like Kenny as s fighter ,getting stuck in there and giving Ali and Holmes tough battles. But not sure I have him rated really high .maybe just below the top 20 .,It's probably because IMO he loses a lot of head to head match ups historically .
Not to take anything away from the man , after all he came along in a mad tough era and actually got a win over Muhammad .
But put up against any bangers in history and in most people's eye's he comes off second Best .

 

If everyone stayed on , they all pick up more losses.I dont see your point.

your opinion based on an agenda of denigrating ali isnt important here the facts are.

no, but YOU look at what you WANT to look at and ignore everything else.thees more differences than similarities -

1. fraziers defence string
2. undisputed title
3. undefeated winning streak in his prime
5. impeccable amateur gold status

These are the achievements that made Frazier ATG. Nortons got none of these.
YOu seem to think that Frazier getting stopped by Foreman deserves some kind of ATG status before these do. Thats the logic of a nutjob.

 

I think Norton deserves to be in the top 20th.

 

I don't rank him in the top twenty, but it's entirely reasonable. I think he could sneak past Schmeling and Walcott, who I have at 20 and 19, but any higher than that is stretching it imo.