What do you guys think of weight lifting?

Any specific exercises you would suggest for people struggling with shoulder issues in boxing?

 

Lol. Boxing isn't anything special compared to other sports.

Lifting weights correctly improves athletic ability. Nobody has claimed lifting weights improves boxing skills.

Who cares about a boxer's opinion on weightlifting? The vast majority of them are clueless.

I have a feeling it was more along the lines of what he felt worked better for him.

Lol. You believe he done that exact workout day in day out?

You seem fairly ignorant on this particular subject. The fact that you bring up bodybuilding and what Tyson thinks about weight lifting says a lot.

 

do explosive landmine twists

 

His physical prime was also exceptionally short, so he isn’t someone you’d look to for advice on physical preparation. Mike also said a lot of things then did the exact opposite, if you read his book he basically admits that he was high on coke throughout his whole career. And he at least had periods where he lifted weights extensively by the way.

 

Depends what the shoulder issue is, what grade, and the timeframe for specifics. For general shoulder stability you want to do internal and external rotation exercises, strengthen your rotator cuff. Exercises like face pulls, grabbing a rubber band and pulling it apart etc.
It’s also very important to do upper body pulling exercises as boxing is very dominant in the other direction, with push ups being a common training exercise without any compensatory exercise being performed. Bench Pulls, Bent Over Rows, pulling your chest to a bar. Not only will they balance out your posture but those exercises help with throwing speed, there’s no reason to believe that wouldn’t also help with the speed of throwing a punch.
Another thing that will help elbow, shoulder health is just learning good technique from the legs, stronger legs with more input from them takes the load off the upper body and gives you more power.
And always view an injury as a period to focus on a weakness or something that needs more development, be thankful for the constraints that allow you to focus.

 

Thanks for the post, but I've done most of those exercises for years. Still had shoulder pain after or even during a bag session for the last couple of months. Managed to sort it out with passive hangs from the pull up bar. No pain anymore, so I'm quite happy.

 

I was doing some reading last night on reddit and found ama's with Errol Spence and Shawn Porter. Spence says he hardly does any weights, mostly push ups. When he does do weights though he said he only hits legs and arms and never does bench press. Spence doesn't use any supplements or anything just eating right.

Porter says he uses weights when he's not in a training camp but once he's in camp he cuts them out entirely and relies on push ups. I'm sure he does core work too but he really doesn't do any weight lifting. In that same thread Porter said he squated 500 in high school and benched 265 all while weighing around 170 lbs.

I think that's really interesting considering they are both at the top of their division against all this "modern training and nutrition".

 

Huh? That is modern training. Those guys are saying they lift heavy weights when not in camp to develop their strength and power, them in training camp they want to focus on boxing and minimising fatigue from non-boxing training, just doing basic shoulder health exercises like push ups.
That’s called periodisation. Both guys are at the cutting edge (relative to the average in boxing) by focusing on strengthening their legs. On Spence’s instagram you can see how dedicated he is to lifting weights, and doing it better than most boxers.
What part of what you read makes you think that it isn’t modern training? Most supplements have very limited efficacy, I work with elite athletes and very few of them take any supplements. Our dietitians help them learn how and what to cook, not recommend the latest pre-workout drink.
I think you’re a bit confused about the difference between bro science and actual evidenced based sports training for athletes.

 

They never once said they lifted for strength and power.

Errol Spence doesn't do weights at all. What instagram posts are you referring to? I went back 3 years and found only one of him doing weights. He was squatting between 135 and less than 225. Probably closer to 135. Not much for a top level athlete. Novice weights.

For Spence here's one of the quotes:
"I've added, well, some of both. I do a lot of calisthenics, lot of body weight, pull ups, push ups, resistance band. I don't really lift a lot of weights unless it's dumbbells, but I don't bench press or do a lot of weights."

Here's another quote: "On a Tuesday, I go to strength and conditioning, do legs and arms. Then go to the gym, then go run, then I might swim a little bit."

Sounds like he dabbles in them but doesn't do anything serious with weights. Also note that he doesn't say he's lifting weights at s&c. He says he's doing legs and arms. That could mean anything.

For Porter here's one of the quotes on it:
Asker: "How much can you deadlift, squat, bench, and what's your fight night weight? 155-160?"
Porter: "I don't, but in high school I squatted 500 lbs and I bench pressed 265 lbs in high school. I was around 170 lbs back then."

Here's a second quote:
"The only time I do weight training is right after a fight, when I don't have to worry about gaining muscle. In camp, it's mostly just pushups and lifting my body weight."

These guys haven't mentioned anything about anything that could appear to be an even remotely complex or athletic weight training regime. Porter himself refers to when he was in high school when asked about his strength levels. Right before he answers though he says "I don't".

I don't really believe you work with athletes. If you do it's probably giving them a massage or something. I seriously doubt you have any relevant sports training knowledge that they rely on you for.

You kinda just made up a lot of stuff about what they do. You sound like the ignorant one not me.

 

What a surprise, a 147 pound boxer isn’t as strong as a weightlifter. So his quote says that he does strength and conditioning and in the same sentence he says legs and arms.. yet you think that means he doesn’t strengthen his legs? And there is actual video of him doing squats with weight on his back.. and you think I’m making something up? Right....
So Porter doesn’t squat, deadlift or bench press.. what is your point? He’s in a light weight class, he obviously has a good level of general strength from his history of lifting weights. Bench Press is not the smartest choice for any throwing athlete and he has to make weight for fights so squats and deadlifts are going to have to be low rep high weight, and partials to avoid gaining too much mass in his lower body if he does them. Then he actually says according to you that he lifts weights when he’s not in training camp. And if he doesn’t squat and deadlift maybe he does step ups, power cleans, leg press etc.

Again, what part of this makes you think that they’re not doing modern training? What makes you think that strength training is meant to be complicated? Do you think dumb bells aren’t resistance training? Do you think calisthenics, body weight and band exercises aren’t strength and conditioning?
Each individual has their own background and needs for their individual sport. As a strength and conditioning coach I can’t see anything wrong with what you say these guys are doing.
What exactly do you think ‘modern training’ is?
Are you getting confused because of what they do in training camp? Athletes generally lift few weights the closer they get to competition. They lift for general strength or size out of season, then as competition gets closer they get more specific with their exercises until the velocity/loads match the demands of the sport to provide the most transfer. It would be very strange if a boxer was lifting like a powerlifter a week out from a fight. Power cleans, plyometrics, shoulder stability exercises yes. You want to limit unnecessary fatigue as you get to a competition. It goes from heavy and slow to light and fast on a continuum. That’s called periodisation, that’s basically what modern training is.

 

That's not what I said at all and you know it. Why are you doing this? Why are you saying things that aren't true about my post? Strength and Conditioning is a blanket term for things for the non boxing things. They might not necessarily be to increase absolute strength but rather to increase muscular endurance for instance. Whatever the athlete's weaknesses are. I'm not talking in weightlifter terms I'm talk in terms of even the average joe who goes to the gym. In the first year of continuous lifting the average person should be able to bench 225, squat 315, and dead 405. Spence has 135 on his back...

Do you have a video of Spence squatting?

Those are 3 very key lifts to developing strength. I thought you work with elite athletes? You should know this.

Anyone that knows anything about the way athletes train knows that they lift on a very strict routine that is periodized. Whatever he's doing when he's not in a training camp obviously isn't very extensive or scientific as you claim modern day training is. He doesn't know when his next fights are going to be, for all he knows he could go into camp next week for example (for practical terms just pretend he didn't have a fight signed rn and was in a camp). Elite athletes who do serious weight training have months and months planned out so their body is at its absolute best not just lift for an undefined period of time until a training camp comes along.

Well according to you and others in this section Modern Training is scientific, involves weight lifting, periodized, and all of these other new variables that most importantly old timers didn't use.

I never said it had to be.

I never said anything to suggest they weren't.

I never said anything to suggest they weren't.

It's not me saying what they are doing, its what they are saying. I didn't see anything wrong with it either. Just noted how it lacked in weight training.

Anything that the old timers didn't do.

I'm not confused about anything. Seems like you are. You're taking when Porter says "I don't do weights during a training camp but I lift weights after a fight when I don't have to worry about weight." to him somehow saying that he does some complex periodization. Going from lifting weights on a non-time regulated routine to completely stopping weight lifting all together is not periodization. It's just changing it up. I'll go through phases where I lift weights for a month or two then completely transition over to calisthenics. It's not periodization, my goals just changed. Lifting weights then stopping for 2 months isn't going to help you on fight night. You'll lose most of the gains made.

That's a myth that fighters can't lift weights while in a training camp and half to tone down. Evander Holyfield was one of the earliest users of "modern training" and I'm pretty sure he was doing weight exclusively and didn't do calisthenics when he moved up to heavyweight. He didn't lower the intensity the closer he got to a fight and he was a fantastic fighter.

 

Changing goals/focus and mixing your training up IS periodisation.
Phase potentiation is what happens when you transfer from one focus to another, hypertrophy involving architectural changes to prepare the body for increased force, strength developing your muscle and connective structures while increasing neural drive, power developing that focus and increasing efficiency of all those combined, and a speed/taper phase to decrease fatigue in order to completely super compensate for competition. You layer one block of training onto another.
And no, you don’t lower intensity coming up to competition, you increase it and keep volume low to minimise fatigue. You could do it differently but it wouldn’t make much sense physiologically, which is why it wouldn’t follow the general rule. You would need a specific reason for it, perhaps that individual needs more of a focus in a certain area so they maintain that focus if that competition isn’t too important.
There is no set definition for ‘strength’ standards, it’s arbitrary and differs wildly from sport to sport. Surprise surprise, you found out that a 147 pound boxer isn’t particularly strong. When you saw him squatting, do you know how difficult it was for him, what phase of training he was in, how many reps etc.? But you’re making a blanket statement about his strength?

The quotes you posted indicated that they do weight lifting in a periodised manner.

I’m still confused about what you think ‘modern training’ is, on one hand you acknowledge that strength and conditioning is a blanket term for all the non-boxing stuff (correct) but at the same time you seem to imply that strength training is strictly the three powerlifting lifts (incorrect). Your whole post sounds like stubborn back tracking and confusion trying to justify your original position, rather than being honest and accepting that you didn’t you really think out your position, or you’re too prideful to admit it and now you are digging your heels in.

Do you know the exceptional track sprint cycling team from the UK? You know those guys with massive quads who can back squat 250-300kg? Did you know they have had periods before major competitions where they stop lifting weights for 8 weeks before competition? So by your definition those guys don’t do weightlifting/modern training or periodise their training?

 

I knew you were going to say this. Incorrect, the difference between random nonsense and periodization is periodization is pre-planned. Meaning the athlete will know what they are going to do at the gym months in advance. What I did was spur of the moment. Not thought out.

Doesn't pertain to the convo so I wont respond to this. Sorry. I'm sure whatever you're talking about here is correct.

Semantics. The point is you don't have to change anything necessarily as the comp comes closer.

There might not be set strength standards by a universal law or something but there are very good standards that have been put out there. [url]https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards/squat[/url]
[url]https://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/SquatStandards[/url]

Spence is closer to 160 on fight night. Maybe a little above.

No. They don't. At all. You're being far too loosey goosey about your definition of perodization. Spence himself said he doesn't really do weights. Does that sound like someone who is on a complex periodized routine? No it doesn't. All Porter said was that he lifts weights when he's not in camp. That's an undefined period of time and that means that whenever he goes into camp he stops wherever he's at. If he were in a periodized training regime then he wouldn't be able to do that. Porter himself said he couldn't even tell you how much he squats, benches, or deads! There isn't a single athlete that does serious weight training that doesn't do at least one of those 3 core lifts.

Pretty sure I said it a few times. I'll say it again: Anything the old timers didn't do that fighters are doing today.

Correct.

Incorrect. I never suggested anything like that. That's on you. You never even asked me what I thought strength training was. I'll tell you it now. Strength training is any training to get stronger. The most common forms of strength training involve the use of weights, bodyweight resistance, and band resistance.

This is incorrect yet again. What exactly did I say in my original post that needed defending? I literally posted quotes from what Porter and Spence said themselves then added that I thought it was interesting that top guys aren't heavily into weight lifting when we are in an era where guys are heavily into weight lifting. This entire time you've been posting enormous walls of text, the contents of which 90% doesn't have anything to do with what I said. You just go off on a tangent and let yourself get derailed as if you have ADHD.

That isn't boxing. There are other variables involved in cycling as opposed to boxing. I'm not interested in cycling, I'm interested in boxing. You've given up whatever position you were trying to hold because you had to switch sports completely and bring up unrelated topics. For all we know you're lying about that too because you didn't even provide a source.

 

I just spent 2 months doing 2 different workout routines with both low and high reps . The first month was with 15 reps per set, 10 sets in total. And the second month was with 5 reps per set, 10 sets in total.
All of these routines were exercises with dumbbells, consisting of dumbbell bench press, dumbbell row, dumbbell fly, and wrist curls. Same amount of sets. Same meals with the same calorie intake. Same frequency of training (once per week on each muscle group) Only difference was intensity and rep range between the 2 workouts routines, over the 8 weeks.
I was curious to see what the after effects on my body were. I generally do both light and heavy weights when I train each muscle once a week. But this time I didn't, I've never have been disciplined enough to stick with a particular rep range. But I managed to see the 2 months out, while resisting the temptation of switching it up. I haven't got a good diet admittedly, I eat alot of fatty foods. So resistance training is important to me. Feeling the effects afterwards, and the conclusion I came to, after following these 2 routines.

The first month with the high rep training supposedly a cardio endurance based routine, I put some mass on, but it was soft and bloated. I felt consistently tired, and sluggish. I also had a big fat belly, and was extremely heavy on the scales, 7 pounds over my usual weight. Felt like absolute crap, my energy levels were low, had problems sleeping. My speed and athleticism declined badly.

The second month with low rep training, with heavier weight. After the 4 weeks were over, I stripped off alot of fat. I felt rock solid, muscles felt tight, I was faster, more energetic, while having higher levels of energy. Had better sleep, and rest. Wasn't feeling so fatigued. Better stamina, and fitness.