Did James Toney live up to his full potential

NO IMO but it depends on how you measure success he was competitive no matter what weight and who he fought it seemed which IMO being good enough to beat the best without training hard was his only negative. I am a big fan of warriors not face first types so much but of fearless tough guys who could back it up.

Toney was a throw back talent that could have fought and been champion in any era but....he seemed to throw the extra effort it took to be in top condition out the window because he was good at least good enough and he was....he was the type of guy who could hang out on a street corner throwing dice and get in the ring and beat a world champion without training hard for it.....his skills were natural to him and required little effort for him to maintain....IMO had he stayed at 160-cruiser he would be one of the GOAT's and it can be argued he was anyway. His only weakness was he was not a very good mover and struggled to cut the ring down against top movers such as RJJ and Nunn but outside of that he was an ATG either way.

 

No. Not enough dedication and commitment. He could have fought lower for periods of his career and been better.

 

Toney achieved what he did almost in spite of himself. His dedication was horrible. I also think hes a bit overrated in some regards. Hes amazing when matched up with certain styles and certain fighters but hes little better than ordinary against others. With a better work ethic and without lapses in concentration he could have probably avoided the "lost periods" he saw in his career but dedication and focus are huge parts of the equation to any fighter.

 

Thanks for typing that out and saying it better than I could've. Pretty much my feelings on Toney to a T.

 

Yes but only in same sense you could say about anybody, he was a great champion and had a nice unbeaten stretch, he did focus more on skill than physical conditioning for the most part, but cut the dude some slack on that, he literally has permanent brain damage and his body hardly can produce testosterone anymore because of it, so it' not really his fault he can't get in shape

 

If he was more dedicated he wouldn't have had **** poor performances like the one against Tiberi and he probably wouldn't have lost to the likes of Griffin and Thadzi, but I don't know if the outcome against Jones would be any different. Many claim that he had great problems making weight, and perhaps so, but excuses are on the other hand dime a dozens concerning embarrassing loses and he did look great against Williams not even four months earlier. So why would he all of a sudden get out of shape for a much more formidable opponent?

So if he had lost like he did against Jones but was known to be a dedicated fighter, there would be less room to explain away that loss, or at the least the manner of it. And to be outclassed like that in a big fight at your peak is always going to be bad for your legacy. Even if it's against Jones.

 

He didn't live up to his full potential but how many fighters ever did ?
How many people in any field ever do ?

He probably lived up to more of his potential than most men who ever lace on the gloves with aspirations of becoming a professional boxing champion.

 

Thousands.

 

No. He needed more dedicaton between fights. His skillset was uncommon with some of the best pockry defense. After losing to Jones he moved to `75 and he didnt throw enogh. He didnt have that exta zip.

 

It's also worth noting that when he fought the other "very good" guys at 160 (and credit to him for fighting the other top guys when he could) at 160, they were good, competitive fights. McCallum fights were nip and tuck. The Reggie Johnson fight could've easily been scored the other way. Nunn was a great fight. I know the Tiberi fight is popular to bring up (and it's worth mentioning), but the total body of work at 160 didn't leave me thinking he was someone who'd outclass other great fighters there the way he gets credited to in most fantasy matchups here. I think there's enough of an actual track record to base that on beyond the obligatory Tiberi and Jones mentions. So, ultimately, I think he is a bit overrated here. Still a heck of a fighter.

After awhile, it quits becoming "well, James would've blown this guy out if he cared" and more of "maybe this is actually about his level". Which is still a damn good level in the grand scheme of things.

James had 9 successful title defenses in his career. 7 at middleweight, 2 at super middle, and zero above that.

 

I’m surprised he isn’t hailed as a god since he was a MW who moved up to SHW to go toe to toe with one of Klitschkos boogeymen opponents for 24 rounds.

From what I told this is a comic book, miraculous, and impossible feat.


All that aside, he was a great fighter.

 

Toney was an exceptionally talented fighter. Freddie Roach has said multiple times he was the most talented fighter he ever trained including Manny Paq. His best weights were 160 and 168 .. post Jones he lost his drive and focus for a long time .. he went up in weight, was not in the best shape and lost a few he should have won .. people often overlook how important will and focus are as parts of a career .. while I feel he was as good as the sum of his parts there is no doubt to me that at 160 and 168 he was an all time great fighter.

 

No def no. Some nights he looked spectacular but def no

 

In 1992, 93 Toney said he would be HW champion by 2004 and he beat Ruiz in 05 was it. I don't believe it was laziness that saw him gain weight; he had a plan and stuck to it.

The Tiberi fight, he had a bad night. Everyone does but it became gospel; get on top of Toney and throw punches. He can be "outworked". How did that work out over the years? Charles Williams tried, Jirov tried, many tried....and Toney became known as the best inside fighter and counterpuncher in Boxing.

The Thadzi loss was a blessing in disguise and if I learned that Toney threw the fight I would hail him as a genius. At that point he was out of the picture, too much risk to fight and the Griffith fights made him easy to ignore. After Thadzi he must have been shot, right?,and I believe his next three fights were against top ten cruisers.

When he got to heavy he dismantled Holyfield. Yeah yeah yeah, he was shot. Toney was 35 and weighed double what he did in his first pro fights and he dismantled Holyfield, separated his component parts. Where Toney went wrong was in continuing to bulk up. Maybe he got bad advice, maybe that was the plan all along, maybe he figured that at his age his legs were gone. Why go chase guys when all you have to do is stand still and they'll come to you? Whatever the case he got so big he flipped his own 'dumb' and 'slow' switches.