Rocky Marciano v George Foreman

I wouldn't write Marciano off against anybody. But Foreman is just a bad, bad matchup. I suppose he 'could' beat Foreman but if I had to bet on the outcome it's big George all the way.

 

No. It is what you say.. But i guarantee you that several posters think exactly equal about this idiot.in fact was a new poster the one who did talk about this guy (bummy davis)and his trash about foreman and it is why i did talk about him again. So nice try!!!!.
Your girl friend is a total troll and a legendary Foreman hater AND I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO THINK IT

 

You are a ****** & Im sorry if I offend ******s when I say that. Foreman was on his ass a couple of times when he fought Lyle so what would he say, Lyle hurt him & dropped him. Lyle was a strong guy, I met him before the Quarry fight (which Quarry dominated & hurt Lyle) but by no means was Lyle an exceptional puncher!! He failed to KO guys that were being KO'd at the time such as Lou Bailey, Wendell Bailey,an Old & worn Jimmy Ellis( who was KO'd in 1 by Shavers) Manuel Ramos,Stan Ward,Scott Ledoux, Bob Stallings,Leroy Caldwell.

So while I like Foreman as a person and respect him as a fighter, I reconize his flaws (Foreman 1) & I do think he could be beaten by a boxer and also a hard hitter that could get inside and hurt him first (like Lyle did) but a harder puncher & good finisher could do it. That being said it would not be an easy task, Foreman is an All -time great

Now go back in your hole, you little cockaroach because I will ignore you from now on....CIAO

 

1-leroy caldwell said foreman and lyle hit equally hard, which makes sense if you watch their fight. They were very even. Foreman was a better finisher, had better ring generalship and was groomed from the amateurs to the olympics to a carefully guided pro career. Lyle started his career very late and missed many years of his prime in prison. He was always a very, very strong man. He was the alpha of his prison, won many brawls and shootouts, and could do over a thousand pushups a day. Bugner, who fought the best of the 70's, said lyle hit him the 2nd hardest after only shavers.

2-lyle was able to get inside and hurt foreman primarily because they were the same height and had a similar reach and weight. Rocky would be giving up 5 inches in height, 12 inches im reach, and 40 lbs in weight. Nobody that small ever got inside on foreman, especially a short swarmer who is only effective up close. Foreman would always shove guys back or club them if they insisted on making it an inside fight.

 

it makes sense if we watch Leroy Caldwell fight Foreman?

oh, I see. ”Lyle started his career very late and missed many years of his prime in prison” so let’s give him a pass for what he did not achieve? Right.

hmm. Very very strong man. Charles Atlas was a strong man too.

hmm. How many of his cell mates were pro fighters? Winning a shoot out is relevant to boxing how?

again, push ups wins fights in what way?

have you seen Guido Trane, Scrap iron Johnson, big foot Martin, Peralta, Dwight Qawi, Ted Gullick against Foreman? If either of those guys had had Rocky power things could have been quite dramatic for George.

3-4 inches tops.

you are pounds out here. It’s 29lbs tops. It’s Practically the same difference Rocky had between Joe Louis. And 1951 Joe Louis would beat every man woman and cell mate just as easily as Lyle did. In 51 fights Lyle was over 220 only 8 times. Where do you get 40lb from???

have you seen the Ted Gullick fight? George was oh so lucky he did not fight prime Rocky Marciano that day. Ted stroked George’s chin with Blows that (from Rocky) would have been Absolute suicide.

 

Foreman knocks him out around rounds 3 or 4 due to styles

But no one under 190lb beats a prime Rocky Marciano in my opinion

 

Great post n one I pretty much agree with.

Rocky like Frazier is super hard to beat over 15 round by anyone who was his size or smaller. The Rock had such great stamina, a great beard, tremendous punching power and that head off the axis, weight on the back foot style which is very unusual for a come forward fighter.

I reckon the 190 pound Holyfield might have beaten Rocky but off the top of my head I cant think of anyone else.

As far as the 220 pound Foreman fighting the 185 pound Rocky, I just cannot see how the Rock could do anything at all with Foreman, especially if George was allowed to do his two handed shove off by the referee.

Chocko, its easy to pick a fighter's worst performances as he rises through the ranks and then state the same would happen to a prime version but its not a fair way to look at things. If you saw Clay v Cooper 1 you would never believe Clay- Ali could beat Liston and Frazier later on. Ali improved as did Foreman.

Gullick and Peralta were both boxer types with excellent foot work and jabs. How do they resemble Marciano ? Foreman also had no concern at all about avoiding the light hand Gullick's punches n knocked the guy out in three rounds anyway.

Its like me stating that because Tiger Ted Lowry gave Marciano fits that Rocky would always struggle to beat any 5 ft 9 inch tall light heavyweights which is of course a ridiculous proposition. Marciano improved, if the Marciano who fought say Walcott faced Tiger Ted then I have no doubt the Rock would catch up with him.

Gullick was 20-3 when he faced Big George which was a damn sight better a record than Lowry had when he fought Rocky. Lowry was actually on a seven fight losing streak when he faced Rocky.

Cheers All.

 

1-it makes sense because common opponents and the eye test. When they actuallu fought, foreman and lyle were even. A similar example is maidana vs ortiz, two evenly matched, similarly sized sluggers trading knockdowns over and over. Maidana is obviously a better fighter than ortiz with a more succesful career, but based on their actual fight, common opponents, etc, its clear one didnt hit significantly harder than the other.

If foremans power was a 9/10, lyles couldnt be less than 8. Again, foreman was a better boxer and finisher with a much smoother career, facing many stiffs in his early career, hence his higher ko%. Lyle didnt have that luxury.

Now if you disagree then you'll be a hypocrite since you will argue for 20 pages defending old school boxers low ko% for the exact same reasons.

2-you give walcott a pass for starving and having to learn on the job and thats why he had so many losses. You give louis a pass for being past his prime when he lost to charles and marciano. Ali gets a pass for being in court for 3 years. Lyle doesnt get a pass for missing 7 years of his youth and starting his career late? Lmao!

3-foreman koed all those guys so whats your point? Why the fvck do you bring up fighters foreman beat and then insert 1 or 2 instances where he got hit as "proof" rocky would do better had he been in the same situation? Its a stupid ass argument and you bring it up every time no matter how many people make u look stupid.

If the thread was "foreman vs chris byrd" and you used the foreman vs jimmy young fight to point out foremans flaws and how byrd could exploit them, it would be valid. But you dont use fights where a fighter demolished the opponent and was never hurt, barely lost a single round.

This is like using ali vs karl fvcking mildenberger as proof ali was weak to southpaws because karl managed to hurt ali once with a body shot--if you ignore the fact ali cut karls eyes, dropped him 3 times, won nearly every single round and finally stopped him. "But man, that amazin body shot karl landed--had louis ortiz or corrie sanders been in there they would have beat alis ass since they were better than karl".

^is the same flawed logic you are applying to somehow prove rocky would give foreman problems because ted gullick managed to land a few decent shots...even though foreman beat the crap out of him in less than 2 rounds. Brilliant.

Btw gullicks amateur record 43-1 with 41 kos 22 in the very first round. He obviously hit hard as hell, and won a national golden gloves. As a pro 14/15 of his wins were kos. So you sound silly trying to downplay gullick as a weak challenger in yet another attempt to downplay foremans resume.

4-stop bringing up the old ass, fat, washed up joe louis. There is literally no comparison between him and foreman and i cant be assed to argue another 20 pages about it when half the damn forum has already explained this to you.

 

Foreman was not rising through the ranks when he met Gullick. He had already risen. George went into that fight with Gullick as the worlds leading contender.

This is a good point. You are correct I could never pick Ali if I were around before Ali fought Liston. In hindsight though, we realise for Ali, it was not the size of men like Sonny that was as problematic to him as the speed of 180lb punchers.

Peralta, Scrap iron Johnson, Gullick, Guido Trane, big Foot Martin, Qawi all resemble Marciano more closely than they resemble Ron Lyle. They all hit George easier than Ron Lyle did too.

Foreman was #1 facing Gullick. Rocky was unknown when he fought Lowrey. At the stage George was Rocky beat Lastarza and Layne who were better than Gullick. In truth, if Gullick had more pop in his punch he would have been as dangerous to George as Ron Lyle was.

That’s not what the record shows against comparable opposition. George was a lot better puncher than Lyle.

No, Foreman was a huge favourite. Lyle had already been exposed at top level.

It makes more sense to use those examples to explain how a fighter later became great than it does to excuse a fighter who topped out just below championship calibre.

I don’t believe Ali does get a pass from me. I rate Ali on where he was at a particular time in his career. I don’t magic up a mystical version of Ali for the exile years that was even better than what we saw.

we have a difference of opinion on this subject. Boxing folk tend to analyse moments of winning fights where a fighter struggled as things that need working on. Take that up with the boxing fraternity.

Trainers often base entire strategy on moments like that.

well we have a difference of opinion here. The points I make are that Joe Louis on his comeback was a similar size obstacle physically to 220 guys and on that form he beat opponents as good as the guys Ron Lyle ever beat. The point you make is that Ron Lyle was a alpha male in prison and that he could do 100 push ups.

 

Only two candidates.Dempsey and Langford.imo Prime Charles gives him hell too.

 

I think you have a good argument with Dempsey and Charles, however what footage of Langford have you seen to give rise to the conclusion that he beats Marciano?

 

Marciano said he thought Lowry would always go the distance with him.

 

I didn't say any of them beat him,just that they were possible candidates to do so.
Langford had the power and the punch placement to get the job done it would have been a barn burner whoever prevailed. imo.

I would always pick Dempsey to beat him myself.
I haven't seen any footage of Harry Greb fighting ,but I would confidently pick him to beat Billy Joe Saunders.

 

If a 30 plus pound heavier, 4 inches taller, all time great Champion is Rocky's "kryponite", that says something about his greatness.

I think Foreman is more vulnerable to crouching defense than often suspected though. I think a very poorly conditiined Frazier's eluding and countering in the rematch could be successful with a more durable and better conditioned fighter.