Rocky Marciano v George Foreman

He ducked any top ten contender for 2 years its not even up for discussion. if he wanted to defend against fighters he had not fought he had the choice between,Foreman,Bugner,Garcia,Lyle ,Patterson,Foster,Roman,Bodell,Norton,Terrell.

Instead of which he defended against two nobodies who were never at any time ranked, or even near being ranked!

 

And joes were sandwiched between Ali and Foreman....not bad.

 

But over 2 years! Ali's opponents all 5 of them were in a timespan of 11 months.

 

Frazier was a depleted force anyway, but look at those guys. Mac Foster already lost to Quarry. Frazier beat Quarry (Same with Lyle, Quarry beat him and Frazier beat Quarry). Terrell. Ali beat Terrell. Frazier beat Ali (Same with Patterson etc etc). Garcia. Garcia lost to Rondon. Bob Foster beat Rondon. Frazier beat Foster. That leaves Bodel? Quarry beat Bodel. Bugner? Bugner lost to Bodel!

I’m not saying Frazier should have went outside the top ten, even if he probably needed to just to keep winning at that point, but I can see how it planned out that way.

if Frazier had of fought somebody like that, all it would have done is it would help folks realise Frazier was no longer the force he once was because he’d be struggling with guys who lost to guys he beat. As you say, they were all better than Stander and Daniels. I think it’s a given they all do better against Joe than Stander did.

For you guys out there who need to believe Frazier was good as he ever was when Foreman beat him it’s probably for the best Frazier did not fight legitimate challengers between Ali and losing to Foreman. I really think it would have shown how far he’d sunk.

 

He ducked everyone in the top ten for that period,and if he wanted to defend against a challenger he had not met, he had,Foreman,Bugner,Terrell,Garcia,Patterson,Lyle,Foster,Roman, Bodell,Norton to pick from!

 

What I believe is that between Ali and Foreman , he defended his title against two men who had no business getting title shots.Who those top ten challengers he ducked subsequently lost to is irrelevant and immaterial.

 

A year less wow! Frazier had to take a year out after fight the century no doubt acting on doctors orders since he was hospitalised after the fight. Ali of course came back quicker although he lost,he suffered less maybe due to the 3 year lay off between 67-70 when joe was keeping busy fighting all and sundry.

 

all it would have done is it would help folks realise Frazier was no longer the force he once was because he’d be struggling with guys who lost to guys he convincingly beat.

As you say, they were all better than Stander and Daniels. I think it’s a given they all do better against Joe than Stander did. And Stander did way better against Joe than he should have.

 

If you aren't willing to defend your title you should relinquish it. Frazier wasn't kept busy figitng all and sundry in67 he didnt fight a ranked fighter. He refused to enter the WBA tournament ,fought the unranked Buster Mathis for the NY State version of the title,defended against the moderate Ramos,Bonavena whom he had already beaten , unranked Zyglewicz, Quarry ,his best "defence",Ellis,and unranked at heavy Foster.Six fights in 2 years.

 

Oh come on! Frazier stopping Chuvalo inside the distance propelled him to #1 at the beginning of the tournament. The argument was, why when Frazier had already climbed to mandatory position should he join rounds of a tournament to decide if he can earn the position he already held?

Then He beat the winner (Ellis) and the semi finalist (quarry) anyway. He’d already beat Bonavena, who was in the tournament. Frazier beat him twice over. The cherry on the cake was Ali. He beat him too. Ellis, Bonavena, Quarry and Ali.

But after that it’s probably for the best Frazier did not fight legitimate challengers between Ali and losing to Foreman. I really think it would have shown how far he’d sunk.

 

He was the top boy by 1970 though was he not? The heavyweight champion of the world with only Ali who could dispute his claim? who he then beat.....

 

"Rumours!" Frazier and his camp never put anything forward about retiring that i know of. Just rumour mongers looking for a story.

Frazier was never retiring, not one bit. Stop pretending otherwise.

 

No you pretended I was “found out” that I was lying about concerns and rumours about Frazier’s health because it does not jive with your agenda that Frazier maintained a prime beyond 1971. The newspaper stuff documents the concerns, the rumours about his health, the need to try out his punch resistance. It is well known Yank wanted Frazier to retire. Why do you think that was? Frazier was hospitalised. There is no pretending here.

If Frazier maintained his prime after 1971 why was he unable to beat Ali again?

 

Bottom line - Frazier was never retiring. End of.

Per the bolded - Ali had 2 fights in 4 years when they first squared off. Frazier was fighting top opposition regularly for years. Ali was also involved in the FOTC. You do the math

 

I think people are possibly underrating Marciano in some of these matchups. He retired undefeated, cleaned out his era and was never seriously hurt in the ring. Why are people so confident they know that so and so can stop him when he was never stopped despite facing the best of his time?