If Monzon and Hagler Shared the same era ?

Maybe he wouldn't and you could be right .. It is a very tough fight to call, imo .. This one might just come down to who has the greater will to win in the 14th and 15th

 

You could be right bud.

 

Magic! You're mum will love it as you will too!

 

In a (few) words: Height and reach, jab, just as much stamina, judging all their fights, a better strategy going in. Marvin often got 'off of his game plan' on occasion and Carlos never did. Don't let that 'thin' lithe physic fool you. He absorbed many body shots in his career. By your post I'm assuming that you think Hagler's going to walk through him?? IMO Red, and others are right. They may not have fought a third time, two UD's for Carlos but Marvin could be cut. One might say the MW Hearns had, roughly, the same stature and that was one h e l l of a fight, Tommy had him a bloody mess. Any one want to take bets on a Monzon-Hearns fight? Or that Carlos wasn't stronger than Tommy? Or that, at the end, King Carlos would have be wobbling all over the ring ready to go like Tommy? Granted, Marvin would have his moments here but...please don't bring up such nonsense like: I'll take Monzon if he'd fought a 1987 Hagler. Nonsense!!

 

Give me a pvp Valdez-Hagler! A MW Valdez that would have put Hearns to sleep. Both Valdez and Hagler could be cut and both had numbing power and both had 'good whiskers'. THAT'S the one I'd have like to have seen! Just my opinion but I think Rodrigo had that rare 'power quick power' that could hurt Marvin or cut him. To be fair, could have gone either way but, in closing, on any ATG MW list King Carlos is slightly above Marvin.

 

Monzon never fought or beat anyone as good as Hearns. Monzon never fought or beat anyone as good as Leonard. Monzon never fought or beat anyone as good as Duran. Monzon certainly never beat anyone as good as Hagler.

Beating Jose Napoles on a thumb in his one middleweight fight or edging Rodrigo Valdes isn't the same as facing Hagler, Hearns, Leonard and Duran. Not by a longshot.

Monzon might last the distance in their first meeting. Hagler breaks him down and stops him in the second. And Hagler stops him even quicker the last time.

Hell, if you included Monzon in a foursome with Hagler, Hearns, Leonard and Duran, I don't even know if I'd favor Monzon over anyone but Duran, and only slightly - because of the height difference.

Monzon was fine for his time. There were plenty of middleweights who came before and after him who IMO would've beaten him handily. Hagler being one of them. (Hearns being another. Leonard being another. Roy Jones being another. I could go on.)

 

That is the issue though, the reach is minimal... 76 to 75... nothing about that is winning the fight. Neither is Monzon's height, that would be no issue for Hagler. The jab, again, maybe you've forgotten how good Marvin's jab is and bad it could hurt his foe. It wasn't a normal jab, it was more like a straight right hand. Monzon isn't winning this fight by outjabbing Hagler. To put it simply, Monzon isn't a better boxer than Marvin at range, nor would that be the how he could beat him. Monzon's preferred tactic is to circle, jab, one tow, repeat. I just don't see that working against Marvin. As I said, I give the mental edge to Monzon, but not the stylistic matchup

 

Monzon in a slight ud, or split decision. A bit more mentally tougher than Hagler.

 

Hi mate, I was watching and following boxing fanatically in the mid 70s and nobody in their right mind thought Duran should be in the same ring as Monzon. Carlos was WAY too big, too tough and too powerful for the tiny ( in comparison ) Duran.

Hearns was a pretty average middleweight in historical terms. Monzon would have caught up with him and stopped him in my opinion.

James Kinchen nearly kayoed Tommy, Hagler did flatten him. Nobody flattened Carlos Monzon. In fact he was barely even hurt in his whole career unlike Tommy who's chin could be described as porcelain ( unlike his fighting heart ) .

A young up and coming Ray Leonard was in an incredibly hard fight with Marcos Geraldo. Monzon was a LOT better than Geraldo. Especially over 15 rounds at a championship level.

Unlike Duran and Hearns Monzon never lost to fighters at Barkley, Robbie Sims, Kirkland Laing etc and he most certainly didnt quit in a fight like Duran did against Leonard.

I feel you are doing Monzon a large disservice with that post.

Cheers.

 

Cold blooded!

 

I tend to agree based on those 9 draws on Monzon’s record. Considering 7 of them occurred in Argentina, the cynic in me believes at least 1 or 2 of them had to be losses. Again, 9 draws!

 

Yeah - looks suspicious, on paper, but...

6 of the 7 draws in Argentina were against fellow Argentinians.

The first match with Briscoe is the other of Monzon's draws, given in his home country - and the only one, in which the opponent was non-Argentine. I am unaware of anyone who disputed the decision.

In addition, there used to be a rule in Argentine Boxing, requiring that there be a margin of (I think) at least two points between would-be winner and loser - or else, the bout was automatically declared draw. This might go some way to explaining the relatively high number of Ds on Monzon's record.

 

Some of these arguments in favor of Hagler are not very persuasive. Beating Duran at middleweight is not a great win by any means. Duran was a great lightweight but not a great middleweight as evidenced by his lack of accomplishments. Likewise, it's not at all clear that Hearns was a great middleweight given his lack of accomplishments at the weight and losing to Barkley.

 

Logic would dictate that, if Monzon, in his own country, fighting someone not from that country, was only given a draw.... he likely lost that fight wouldn't you say?

 

Thanks for clarifying, particularly about the former rule of requiring a 2 point margin of victory. Even if this was the case, it seems odd to me that an ATG, which Monzón clearly is, would have 9 draws. This also means that he could’ve been on the short end, by one point, in one or more of those fights that resulted in a draw, due to the 2 point rule.