Looking back at Foreman-Lyle

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by TornGloves, Feb 5, 2018.

  1. TornGloves

    TornGloves New Member Full Member

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    I'm sure that many threads have been made about this war over the years. However I'm very new here and would like to get your guys thoughts on this fight. What do we think about it? Where does it rank with other great heavyweight fights?

    The amount of power on display in this fight is outright terrifying. It must have been few times in boxing history when two such punchers faced each other and traded the way these guys do.

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  2. jowcol

    jowcol Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Greetings! Seems like so much of Lyle's legacy hinges on his performance against George in 76. Foreman had head problems and a new manager/style and...fought stupid against Lyle. Ron is a legit HW in any era but he could be hurt and fought 'brain dead' George at exactly the right time (for Ron). Foreman would have 'iced' him early pre-Ali. Seems like there are a lot of Lyle nut-hugging threads being started as of late. I'm repeating myself but show me a Lyle career/resume building win in his legacy?
     
  3. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Very entertaining brawl. I don't think Foreman would've ever bulldozed Lyle without some stiff resistance.
     
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  4. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    It is pure speculation.just inventing this crap you are not going to **** what he actually did in the real world. I am a huge foreman fan and i never will buy this absurd idea of "pre ali foreman would kill lyle easily" lyle always would be a tough opponent for george
     
  5. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    If you want an overrated nobody it is donovan ruddock.an inflated guy by the tyson fans in order to give tyson more credit.
     
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  6. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    I don't think pre Ali Foreman would have definitely beaten him easily but i do believe he would have had a less tough time pre Ali as well.

    If you are prescribing otherwise you also should believe Young would have beaten Foreman pre Ali as well. Do you? This would also open up a can of worms in that other slick good heavyweights would have been every chance of outboxing George.
     
  7. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Foreman never bulldozes Lyle. Lyle was too big, too strong, and too athletic for that. He was also a pretty good boxer in an era of great great HWs and he could whack. Lyle was legit prison thug who wasnt going to be intimidated by Foreman. He may never have beaten Foreman but he was always going to be hell for him.
     
  8. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    One of the most entertaining heavyweight fights of all time, hands down. The definition of the term "slugfest". I do feel Lyle may be slightly overrated because of this performance, but Lyle did go a remarkable distance and became quite a competent fighter despite his extremely late start to the sport.

    Anyway, a great fight and one that I'm sure has made new fans of plenty of first time viewers. It's that exciting.
     
  9. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    How come Lyle didn't get a rose colored glasses Hollywood rendition/retelling of his life like fellow criminal Ruben Carter? Not an inspirational enough tale for some I guess.
     
  10. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Jimmy young did not beat foreman"out boxing him" he was counterpunching but he was put against the ropes
    [url]https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/heavyweight-boxing-george-foreman-in-action-throwing-punch-vs-jimmy-picture-id81476561[/url]
    ,foreman did cut the ring pretty well he was very hard to outbox you could not run from him. BUT This version of foreman was totally different than the one that fought lyle,george himself did admit that he wanted to prove that he could go to the distance in his fight with young he was obssesed with the stamina after of the ali fight,and even having his few moments with young against the ropes he was not that aggressive in this fight he fought like a patient boxer puncher against young however against lyle he fought like slugger (like always) .also jimmy young was very elusive,pretty hard to stop in his prime and pretty hard to hit clean. It is not that simple like saying "if young could then every ranked guy with similar style could do the same"
     
  11. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Young certainly didn't beat Foreman by slugging with him.

    Foreman barely threw a punch with bad intentions in the first 2 minutes of the Lyle bout. He patiently circled around concentrating on the jab, even doubling it up. He was on his toes at a few points. He threw a couple of harder shots just before Lyle caught him with a whopping right hand around 2.30. Foreman spent the rest of the round on the defensive from an aggressive Lyle.

    Foreman came out on his toes in round 2 trying to establish the jab. Lyle is absolutely the aggressor. Foreman is circling and conceding ground. He then wings a few hard shots before trying to establish the jab again. Lyle puts the pressure on and Foreman hurts him. Foreman finally opens up and goes after him. He then has Lyle on the ropes and actually pumps plenty of jabs between harder punches. With Lyle in trouble Foreman is still measuring his punches and staying quite calm, very likely due to the Ali loss and an attempt to conserve.

    Even at this late point i would absolutely contend Foreman is not fighting as a "slugger". Foreman already has his post Ali team with Clancy and co. in place and you can see the difference and some of what he is trying to change/achieve. The Young fight is just 14 months later. Seriously tho - A guy moving forward on Foreman basically constantly and he's trying to jab and box? This would be a Foreman wet dream pre Ali. It would have been war right from the beginning. This isn't pre Ali Foreman, it's post Ali Foreman/Clancy.

    I've just watched the first 3 rounds of Foreman - Young again. Foreman is doing very very little excepting the attempted bullying of Young. Foreman has not trapped Young on the ropes at all and is just content to follow him around. He's not even overly trying to establish the jab because Jimmy is too slick and owns a good jab himself. He is far slicker and more elusive than Ron, that's plain to see. We've gone 3 rounds and Foreman has landed nothing noteworthy and is just slowly tiring himself out. He was just ambling the first two rounds against Ron too. He was busier with the jab but only because Lyle was easier to jab against and didn't offer up much jab wise of his own.

    So in summing up i find Foreman fighting basically the same vs Lyle and Young. He's trying to box and conserve stamina early. Lyle eventually pushed the fight toward a street brawl thru his own continued offensive success and also thru being vulnerable himself at times. I find the Foreman in both these fights distinctly different to the one from Ali and back. Absolutely understand the improvements they were trying to make but i really don't think they were meant for this version of George, as orthodox and sensible as they were.

    This more conservative version of Foreman would have been beaten by plenty imo. I can't see him beating the likes of Holmes, Lewis and co. The unbeaten version i wouldn't take many at all against him. Just my take.
     
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  12. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Correct in this. Any version of big Georgy would end up getting hurt or dropped against Lyle. It was a clash of style's and meanest top dog attitude.
     
  13. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    So you watched 3 rounds and it is all the fight? .
    Young was against the ropes...
    [url]https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/heavyweight-boxing-george-foreman-in-action-throwing-punch-vs-jimmy-picture-id81476561[/url]

    I know that an undefeated foreman was more confident and aggressive just like every undefeated fighter... So what ? And saying that there are a lot of fighters that would beat the 76 foreman it is a joke
     
  14. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    I only needed 3 rounds to see Foreman was similar in the Young and Lyle fights and different to what he was prior yes. That is the whole point of the matter. Foreman walked thru both Frazier and Norton in no time.

    One picture of Young on the ropes means nothing really. I dare say that photo was taken the one time Young was hurt and in trouble. He had zero trouble staying off the ropes in what i watched and why would he - Foreman was just trudging along happy not to have too much output or get seriously aggressive. If Lyle wanted to stick and move a bit he would have had no trouble either. As it was Foreman actually gave ground and put little heat on him in the first couple of rounds except for a conservative (by his previous standards) attempt at putting him in more trouble when he hurt him.

    I absolutely believe the Foreman that fought Lyle and Young would have been beaten by a number of fighters. Lyle almost knocked him out and Young easily outpointed him. Both are good fighters but hardly ATG's.

    As badly as i believe Tyson matches up against him i have to seriously think if he may have beaten George at this time. His power is up there with anybody and his two fisted finishing is light years ahead of Ron's. If Foreman mucks around and lays off him giving ground like he did against Lyle he'd be in enormous trouble.
     
  15. Combatesdeboxeo_

    Combatesdeboxeo_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Between what you think and the reality there is a huge distance so don't spend too many letters