Great fighters with zero personality

Most definitley. AJ Leibling felt the same way. He had interviewed and spent some time around Liston.

 

Ward isn’t black. His father’s some white Irishman.

 

In America’s racial taxonomy, he’s considered black.

 

Sonny Liston was not a victim of anything but his poor life choices. He committed armed robbery not once but twice, assault with intent to kill, drunk driving, theft, grand larceny, strong arming, impersonating an officer while attempting to pull over a woman in a secluded wooded area and fleeing the police with his headlights off when they luckily happened by halting only when shots were fired at him, possession of a weapon by a felon, and according to his fans he was either a drug dealer murdered by other drug dealers afraid he was going to dime them out or, officially he was a heroin addict who died of an overdose. Regardless the guy was no angel and the fact that all of those crimes took place AFTER he was a well paid professional athlete shows he wasnt a victim of circumstance but a criminal. You can be a fan of him as an athlete without having to be an apologist for his crimes. Its like the people who claim that Ron Lyle or Hurricane Carter were misunderstood innocents when their life history shows them to be anti-social thugs.

 

You could be right but he had a charismatic face and along with his flashy style in the ring it worked, they say even housewives liked Ray, I know my mum liked him she was cheering him on during the Hagler fight. Ray was voted the sexiest sportsmen in a women`s magazine in 1991.

 

Many feel Carter was innocent though, there was strong evidence, a lot of black people are convicted of crimes and killed by the police when they have done nothing wrong.

 

When DLH first started his career he was a heart throb like Justin Bieber.

 

There was a hell of a lot more that he was guilty and regardless of whether he killed those people or not, which I'm convinced he did he proved to be a violent anti social ******* his entire life, not some misunderstood victim. Sports fans just have this weird need to believe their hero is not a thug so they paint these guys as victims. I can recognize a guy like Liston as a great fighter without having to delude myself that he was a good person. In Carters case I don't think he was either a great fighter, a good person, or a victim in an sense of the word.

As for DLH he was a heart throb but he was a total phony. His fake smile and constantly trying to be PC so he could appeal to the widest audience. I still recall him bitching and moaning to Larry Merchant about how he thought he beat Mosley the first time around with tears in his eyes yet had this Cheshire grin plastered across his face. The guy was clearly upset but still couldn't let that fake veneer crack for an instant.

 

Tobe Liston inflicted whippings so severe on Sonny that the scars were still visible decades later. "The only thing my old man ever gave me was a beating," Liston said.[11] Helen Baskin moved to St. Louis, Missouri, with some of her children, leaving Liston—aged around 13, according to his later reckonings—in Arkansas with his father. Sonny thrashed the pecans from his brother-in-law's tree and sold them in Forrest City. With the proceeds, he traveled to St. Louis and reunited with his mother and siblings. Liston tried going to school but quickly left after jeers about his illiteracy; the only employment he could obtain was sporadic and exploitative.[4]

You make the situation sound so black and white, right and wrong.

 

Monzon? Obviously you don't understand too much the spanish.the guy could talk pretty well and did some Great jokes he should not be mentioned here

 

Why are you convinced Carter committed those murders?

 

A better question is why you think he didnt? Rather than spend the next 5 hrs explaining myself ill let cal deal, who covered the case for a local paper and whose excellent website tells you everything bob dylan and denzel washington left out:

http://www.graphicwitness.com/carter/

 

A big strong healthy young man, black or white, can find honest work if he tries, particularly in a city like St. Louis. The guy was uneducated, nobody is going to promise him a job as CEO. Get real. That doesnt make him a victim. It also doesnt give him the justification to become a stick up man. Plenty of poor, uneducated people of all colors make an honest life for themselves. Furthermore it doesnt explain or excuse his continued law breaking and antisocial bent even after he became affluent. Your whole blurb reads like the kind of tripe Im talking about. You wanna tell me he had visible whipping scars when he stripped to fight?? Bull****. Talk about being an apologist. Im sure every criminal has a sob story but guess what a lot more people who never take up a gun do too. Sob stories dont get you an acquittal or prove your innocence they just allow suckers to convince themselves that thugs have a good excuse for being crooks and so its ok to dismiss it. Like I said, I dont need to delude myself to enjoy his boxing. OJ was a murdering ****er but when I see clips of him running the ball I can still admire his ability. Doesnt mean ill ever think he was a good person, whether he was kind to kids or loved animals or whatever other redeeming quality you need to focus on to distract from the fact that hes a criminal.

 

You seem to have a bit more of a dog in this fight, or rather a strong opinion, than I do.

 

Yes, that's right...I don't understand too much Spanish! Now, you must know that I am probably one of Monzon's biggest fans here, right? And you know that many, many people in the world don't speak Spanish, right? Now to you in the Spanish speaking world, you probably have more insight into Monzon's personality, since you speak a common language. Yes, it was obvious that Monzon could "talk pretty well" and wasn't a dummy or anything, (and for me to know that, I really had to dig for it) but that's not how he came across in the non-Spanish speaking world. Carlos had the reputation of being rather cold, surly and taciturn in his public image, especially in his hostile dealings with the press, and he hated the press. He didn't have the bubbly, colorful, emotional and comparatively lovable demeanor of Roberto Duran, for instance, who knew a smattering of English, and communicated with the press better than Carlos. He definitely didn't have the warm, friendly personality of Alexis Arguello either, for that matter...and Alexis spoke English rather well, which bolstered his image, and endeared himself to both the press and the American public, and elsewhere, as well. I personally, didn't hold Monzon's steely image against him at all, in fact, I've always dug that air of mystery and badness that he projected. He was a supremely great fighter, that's all I cared about. Monzon was boxing's equivalent of Clint Eastwood, the menacing "Mr. Cool" of boxing...but that didn't take very well with the press or the public in the U.S. They interpreted Monzon's arrogance and his quiet, cold facade with having "no personality", for better or worse...and maybe unfairly at the end of the day. But nothing has ever been done to dispel that bad rap from the Latin press, particularly the Argentine press. No books, movies, no effort at all has been made to shine a light on this most mysterious boxing great. He's the most carefully guarded secret of the boxing crazy Latin world. Do you know why this is? Is it because of his cold, but supremely effective style and approach to boxing? And don't tell me that it was because of the notoriety of the Alicia Muniz tragedy, his imprisonment and subsequent, tragic death. So for better or worse, for two or more generations of boxing fans removed, the designation of "no personality" will persist until more is known about him. Unfortunately, for now,...perception is reality.