If Monzon and Hagler Shared the same era ?

**** that ****!

he didnt get attention b/c he was too boring and lifeless. it was like watching an alligator in the water; it's stock still until you throw a rock at it

 

yes he was absolutely

Monzon and duran were greats but next to the name Ali they were actors of second row and it.is a fact.

Not unknowns but not the same fame that they got because the poor era of larry holmes in the hw division

 

You really think so? I don't .. A big part I think which contributes to the Fab 4 greatness is that they all had each other to fight(along with Benitez) and the Monzon resume is a solid notch below imo

 

Yes i think so and he would have beaten all them. Duran,Leonard and hearns easy...hagler more competitive but monzon still wins

 

Ya but a statement like that doesn't mean much to me .. Duran, SRL, Tommy weren't natural middles.. Hagler for sure more competitive .. It's a close fight for me

 

I don't think I agree with this either.. Ray's movement confused Hagler, why don't you think his speed and movement wouldn't be successful against a slower Monzon. Ray beat the Hearns jab, why not Monzons? .. The weight is probably the biggest obstacle for Ray .. but I think you're selling Ray short here ... Another close fight for me. Ray could outpoint Carlos here with his fast hands and ATG flurries

 

Ray's not going to beat Monzon. Most likely, loses on points

 

could be the case? but why? I see a bad style matchup here for Carlos as I stated above .. Ray superior in movement, hand speed, scoring in flurries, and equal in toughness, heart and ring IQ , Carlos adv. weight... your thoughts??

 

I've not seen Ray in any middleweight fights other than the very faded Hagler and it was ONLY that hagler he was interested in

Monzon was considerably better than that version

Raythen left the division and bail out of any defenses, skip the likes of Tate, Benn, and tall southpaws like Nunn, which would have told us more but the fact that he didnt, suggests to me that Ray didnt want those weaknesses exploited and therefore not a quality middleweight

 

Ray Leonard's fights with Hagler, Lalonde, Hearns 2 and Duran 3 were all basically middleweight fights. Leonard weighed essentially 160 for all of them. They said he was 165 for Lalonde, but he was fully dressed and admitted to putting weights in his pockets.

Frankly, Monzon never beat anyone as good as Hagler, Hearns, Duran and I don't know any of opponents who would've beaten the light heavyweight champ Lalonde.

I don't know how beating those guys didn't make Leonard a quality middleweight. That's nonsense.

What made Monzon a quality middleweight? Losing or drawing a dozen times? Beating Jean Claude Bouttier?

 

Lalonde, IMO, was hand-picked for Leonard much Like Ruiz was for RJJ.
You fight who you have in front of you. How about Benvenutti an ATG! Carlos whittled him down twice.
Again IMO Nino ( could) have bested Hearns (a great fight) and Duran at middle (boxing, counterpunch clinic-see Benitez). Hagler? perhaps not, I'll give you that.
Bouttier? Give me a break! Let's bring up a few of Hagler's, shall we say, less than optimum performances as Champ.
You need to read up on 'draws', especially in Argentina.
Valdez? Both he and Carlos had seen better days at that point yet Carlos took him completely out of his game.
In closing, a prime Hagler win over a prime Valdez doesn't look like a foregone conclusion to me.

 

The problem is that hagler lost to leonard and duran was competitive with him... Duran is not lasting the distance with Monzon not even in his best dreams

 

ya ..I agree with this but SRL different story imo

 

You must be drunk if you think That a natural welter Is beating a big mw,strong physically and mentally,patient,smart,with great stamina and great chin like Monzon.
Leonard would be all the fight in survival mode running to last the distance.. Carlos by wide ud being the aggressor or late tko

 

Excellent...just what I was going to say!