Are there any fighters in history you think could beat a prime Roy Jones?

The Kentucky Cobra,

Every fighter has certain attributes.

Every fighter has strengths and weaknesses.

The old adage of 'styles make fights' will always apply.

I wouldn't say that Roy from 2003-2004 would have made easy work of Tarver's best opponents. I agree that Tarver would always have presented Roy with a dangerous fight though.

Virgil was faded, but still around the level of Tarver and Glen.

Yes, Glen presented Roy with a different challenge stylistically, but there was a huge difference between the version he fought and the version who fought Hill.

Dariusz was very tough. But I don't think he could have coped with Roy's speed.

 

The Kentucky Cobra,

You can laugh all you like. That's your opinion.

There's a few people on here who don't like Dino. But I've debated him for 6 years, and he always backs up his opinions with facts. He posts videos, links and book excerpts, and he's especially knowledgeable on the history of the HW division. I have a lot of respect for that way of debating, as most guys on here don't debate in that manner.

How have I been biased?

It had nothing to do with size.

Joe's 6'0, with a 74" reach, and he had a walking around weight of 196 pounds. He's a big guy.

He didn't want anything to do with the LHW division because his main objective was to stay unbeaten. Which is why he defended a lightly regarded WBO belt for 10 years at SMW.

If you followed his career, you'd realise that he wanted nothing to do with Roy when he was anywhere near his best, but he was more than happy to pursue the fight after he knew he was shot and offered no threat. And that's exactly what Bernard did. You say he committed to unifying the division, but the truth is, that's only what he ended up doing. When Roy went to HW, Joe knew that Ottke wouldn't fight him. He also knew that there were no other big fights on the horizon at the time. Lacy and Kessler had done nothing at that point. And he admitted that going into fights with the likes of Mger Mkrtchyan, telling the media that he'd done all he could at SMW, he'd never had a defining fight, he'd never beaten anyone great, and he knew that he had to move up.

He would have made more money and gained a lot more credit if he'd have fought Pavlik instead of Roy. Yet he wasn't interested. He said Pavlik didn't excite him and he'd done nothing to warrant a fight. But after saying that, he then bizarrely admitted that he'd tried to fight Pavlik directly after Lacy in 2006, despite the fact that Pavlik was an unknown NABF champ at the time.

I'm a fan of his. But his reign is nothing particularly special.

 

there's nothing immature about naming a fighter who had no interest in crossing the pond not getting bouts against the best fighters of his era in their prime. but once they were dethroned and past prime, had no problem at all crossing the pond and making the fights.
Calzaghe was high risk, low reward - you can't get the networks on board if nobody stateside knows who Calzaghe is
if you think i'm displaying bias, just look at the graveyard of European fighters fighting in and around MW to SMW who didn't cross the pond and therefore didn't fight/earn their shot during the reign of jones and Hopkins

it wasn't 'bad luck' or the fault of higher profile fighters, because fighters like sturm and steiglitz have used the exact same model that ottke and michaelweski used - get rich at home defending 'a belt', which is all they need to maintain a lucrative german TV deal - while avoiding the big players on the biggest stage of all

frank warren, Calzaghe's manager, used the exact same formula with Calzaghe (as well as hatton and khan until they did what Calzaghe wouldn't - cut ties with warren, crossed the pond, and look at the fights they got made).

now all you've done above is label me because of my views but said nothing of substance in reply
let's see you back up your beliefs this time

 

Long rambling essay that is once again rendered worthless by ignoring the fact it was Hopkins who pulled out of an agreed fight with Calzaghe in 2003. So yes, I will call you biased and immature once more.

 

could you specify with a quuote, which of AI's words are immature in his last post that you defined as immature?

I asked you to do this with Pimp C and you declined to that time. Hopefully you will evidenceyour claim this time rather than duck again.

 

the hopkins calzaghe proposal was sought to be in Cardiff as the favoured venue.

Is a fight in Cardiff your definition of "crossing the pond" then? Do you mean crossing the pond of Tigerbay in cardiff? I am pretty sure AI means crossing the Atlantic ocean...not an actual pond.

 

unless you can give me a date of this apparently arranged Calzaghe-hopkins bout, we can only assume that no bout date existed..and therefore noone pulled out of it.

truth is, there was no agreed bout, and therefore the "pulling out of thebout" that you pretend happened, could not have taken place.

Nor is there any evidence of weight gain, preparation for SMW by moving up to SMW for a warm-up, in fact anything at all to suggest hopkins was serious about a move there.

Its more likely that Joe was simply using Hopkins name to sell himself, not having any names on his resume to do the job himself. He repeated the trick with Thomas Tate, Antwun Echols, Joppy, Hopkins again... and instead fought Mger, Veit, Salem, Ashira.

Its impossible for EVERYONE of these people to have "pulled out", the odds are astronomically against it. Occams Razor gives u the simple denominator as Joe Calzaghe pulling a fast one over his fans with each consecutive "no show".

To his credit though, he did end up that run facing Lacy, so there is something positive that came from it - Joes first ever challenge for a major world title at the age of 34. BY a bizarre coincidnce, the same age as Roy jones finished his 6th major world title challenge across 4 divisions.

 

Kentucky? u should surely have posted an immature GIF by now as a means of mature reply.

 

I think he would, because Roy dominated over matched opponents, while Tarver got lazy against them.

We can agree on that.

I still can't envision 98 Hill beating 04 Roy. 04 Johnson would lose to 98 Roy, but would still give him some scares because of his style and attributes.

Because your critique of Calzaghe conflicts with your support of McCallum for obvious reasons.

We know Calzaghe really isn't that big and clearly had trouble taking punishment from heavier men. And it's all speculative. We can't get too critical over speculative reasons for fighters fighting at the weight that they do.

You know very well that the argument could be flipped and has been, with Roy being criticized for bailing on loaded MW and SMW divisions to fight slower older guys at Light Heavy. I really don't see a point in that, fighters have an obligation to their team to be as successful as they can be, not seek out all challenges high and low and adjust their body's accordingly.

From what I've seen, I don't think either man wanted anything to do with each other during their prime years. As I said, they were doing their own their thing in different divisions. They just happened to be on each other's radar in 08, Calzaghe needed one last PPV opponent, Jones wanted one last go, and they made it happen without issue. They were never rivals, so I don't understand this talk.

Calzaghe and Hopkins are a different matter...and Hopkins and Roy are another matter. They were at least rivals people wanted to see in the ring together and attempted to negotiate fights with each other in the early 00s.

He's already in the history books.

 

watch that Kentucky chicken run, Roy. catch it!

 

Get to an AA meeting. Quickly.

 

I'd have loved to have seen Zaggers take on Pavlik. At the time Pavlik was looking like a monster, but Joe would have Lacy'd him

Lacying two American monsters would have done wonders for Zaggers' legacy

 

Carlos Monzon ticks most of them himself.

 

I've always believed that Joe would have beaten him easier than what Bernard did. But he didn't want it.

I'm sure he'd have made more money against Pavlik, because his fight against Roy wasn't a huge PPV success.

Joe went with Roy because he was the safer option. And that's what Joe did his whole career. He had the skill, but not the will.