If Leonard had boxed Duran in the first ft like he did the rematch , what's the result?

My articles on both of the fights. Brawl in Montreal https://imgur.com/gallery/oNyqG and No Mas https://imgur.com/gallery/4gVd7

I think Duran would give Ray all he could handle anyway but Ray using his feet more would see him to a close decision win.

 

I think you are referring to this right https://i.imgur.com/J2GnO3o.mp4 which was a cross counter over Ray's jab.

 

Not that one i reckon.

 

I agree on the Duran side of things. We didn't really see a Duran on fire like we did that night, ever again.
However, I am intrigued by the idea that Leonard was still an improving fighter. I am not sure this can be demonstrated but would be interested to read thoughts on why others think this was the case.

Again, I am not convinced that Leonard actually did do better than Duran, in the last three rounds; save the round that Duran consciously threw away (15), which in itself was less to do with Leonard doing better - than it was about Duran exuding confidence of victory.

 

https://i.imgur.com/NRgJmr4.mp4

 

Yeppers.

 

That story always struck me as something that Leonard came up with to help explain why he fought such a strange fight. Never really made much sense or matched the film. If Leonard needed time to clear his head (though lol at him needing three rounds to recover from one Duran punch), getting on his toes and running around the ring would have been smarter and safer.

 

Shocked that so many smart posters have convinced themselves that Leonard actually couldn't have gotten on his toes and moved around more if he'd wanted. The idea that Montreal Duran was some untamable beast who wouldn't have allowed Leonard to move around the ring no matter how badly Leonard tried just seems way over the top and completely implausible to me. Guess I'm in the minority on this one.

 

Very safe prediction, considering that Leonard actually didn't lose by much in the real Montreal fight.

 

Yeah. Duran show boated and clowned in the 15th, making Leonard miss.

Now days, judges award rounds for flashy defense.

 

In Leonard's own words, post-fight, he expressed that he had "no alternative" but to use the tactics he did. I found this, by itself, quite revealing. Leonard wasn't excusing his tactics. He was point-blank stating that it had been the only way for him to fight Duran.

We also shouldn't pretend that Leonard did not attempt to control the distance and be evasive, using his feet. A good deal is made of his fighting "flat-footed", when in fact he did on occasion try to use footwork/lateral movement to establish a gap between himself and Duran.

But, Duran was able to cover ground very quickly and close the gap, at will. I have difficulty imagining Leonard winning the fight, by backpedaling for 15 rounds, when Duran was all too prepared to set the furious pace that he did.

 

Duran slowed in the last 3 rounds, so most people think Leonard was getting the better of Duran.

But he was not. People sometimes forget Duran was 29 years old, and a Lightweight. He slowed a little, in the last 3 rounds due to him getting a little tired as he was above his natural weight and older.

Duran was as good as he could be on that night, but lets give him 10+natural pounds and make him 5 years younger.
Duran would have knocked Leonard out

As for Ray. I consider this LOSS to be one of the best performances of his career.

 

These are the exact same points I've repeated ad nauseam to Kev, but he still continues to believe post fight excuses by the Leonard camp. He can't seem to see that SRL was trying to control distance and keep Duran away from him in the very 1st round, and then what happens, he gets hurt badly in the second, and again in the 3rd. After he regains some clarity, he again tries to control distance in the later rounds, but again, Duran is all over him and doesn't allow him to get in a comfortable rhythm. People seem to believe SRL always fought like he did in Duran 2, when in fact, it was the opposite of that. He was always a boxer puncher or circled around and tried to bait people into his left hook. He was trying to same with Duran, but Duran's ferocity didn't make that strategy easy on SRL. This whole notion that he only traded with Duran because he wanted to beat him at his own game was only concocted after the fact to make SRL seem like he didn't "really" lose. He only lost cause he didn't fight his fight. Problem with that is, pre-fight Dundee said that, my guy is bigger, taller, stronger, faster with a longer reach. He's going to KO Duran. I want my guy controlling the center of the ring and not backing up. Duran does best when he can back you up. Yet, he couldn't prevent Duran from making him do so because A) He was made to respect Duran's power and B) The will and ferocity of Duran. Duran wasn't going to allow him to simply circle him and box him at range like the Wilfred fight, and he didn't allow that. With whole narrative of SRL only needed to use his legs and he would've easily won Montreal like he did N.O. is laughable.

 

Was Leonard a greater fighter than Hagler? Not in my opinion, but he won the psychological battle before their fight and as a result, he controlled the way it was fought that night.
And he learnt the importance of winning the fight-before-the-fight from Montreal.

 

No, the point that you always try to make during these discussions--that his strategy in Montreal was basically just how Leonard always fought-- is completely different than the point that everyone else makes (that Leonard only fought this way because Montreal Duran made him).