Are there any fighters in history you think could beat a prime Roy Jones?

Clowns?

The guy has given you a breakdown of why Joe and Dariusz missed out on the biggest fights.

He has given you examples of why, and he's listed you other European fighters who have travelled the same road.

He's also given you examples of other fighters who got the biggest fights, by travelling on a different road.

His posts were full of logic and facts.

Joe not being able to secure the Hopkins fight in 2003 does not change any of what he said.

He didn't ramble along, he provided you with great insight.

You need to wake up and acknowledge the fact, that apart from Hopkins, Joe never pushed for other big fights.

He made 21 defences of a lightly regarded belt, where only 7 of those were mandatories.

It doesn't get any clearer.

Joe wasn't universally dodged.

He wasn't the unluckiest fighter in the world who was desperate to fight the best, but who was unable to do so.

He was more than content to defend his WBO title in Britain, which is why he boasted of his number of title defences when he had a war of words with Carl Froch.

He was happy to fight the Salem's of the world. Because all he wanted to do was to get paid and to retire undefeated.

 

Ha!

He's the 'King of Spin'

He'd make the world's greatest lawyer.

"Well your honor, those people should never have gotten in the way of those bullets that were fired from my clients gun"

 

I'm not even talking about Dariusz.

Actually it does because Calzaghe can't be blamed for that fight not happening. You can't try to make a big point and ignore something that huge.

And at the end of the day, Calzaghe got quite a few big fights..including Hopkins and Jones... so I'm not sure what is even being said.

 

I never said you were talking about Dariusz. But Dariusz and Joe took similar paths.

Dariusz milked his WBO belt in Germany, whilst Joe milked his in Britain.

No, Joe can't be blamed for the Hopkins fight falling through. But again, what Aussie Invader has wrote is very accurate.

Take a step back, and look at Joe's chosen career path, and not solely what happened in 2003.

I was very much looking forward to reading a back and forth debate between you both. But you obviously aren't willing to partake in one.

 

He milked it by fighting lineal unified Champ, Virgil Hill , and becoming the rightful owner to the WBA and IBF belts Jones later paraded around.

He milked it by fighting Griffin, Thadzi, Rocco, Prince, Hall, Harmon..etc. almost everyone of note but Jones Jr. and a few old names. Dariusz did pretty good for himself being based out of Germany.

Jones Jr and Dariusz missed each other. And people supporting Jones Jr, come off like they are throwing stones at glass houses when they start criticizing fighters for missing fights. Because everyone not a Jones Jr fanboy will tell you, his resume is lacking and he missed too many fights within the divisions he was active in.

Within his own division. Calzaghe only missed Ottke, who absolutely refused to face him. And when it came down to it, Calzaghe made the Hopkins fight and at time Hopkins was a top P4P fighter and the LHW Champ. And Calzaghe got one of the last big Jones Jr fights. So what exactly is the issue? He didn't fight in a division you wanted him to fight in? Get real, man.

 

The Kentucky Cobra,

Absolute nonsense.

Joe couldn't get Hopkins or Ottke to fight him at SMW, so he remained there even though there was nothing else on the horizon.

Mike couldn't get Hearns or Duran, but then moved up and fought Toney etc.

Could Joe not have moved up to LHW earlier in his career to secure a title shot? Could he not have made waves and moved up the rankings with 3 different Org's?

The WBO would have made him the mandatory to either Dariusz or Gonzalez, had he have moved up to LHW in 2003.

It's okay saying he went on to have great nights against Lacy and Kessler, but they were nowhere to be seen in the early 00's, when Joe was killing himself to make weight to fight guys like Veit and Mkrtchyan.

It's just an insult to compare him to Mike.

How is that biased?

That's what happened.

That is completely different to Joe killing himself to make weight for years at SMW, when there were better fighters at LHW.

It's completely different to Joe defending a lightly regarded belt for an organisation which were a laughing stock, against mainly B and C class opposition.

He put himself in a position where there was a risk of him losing his zero.

He didn't have to face those guys he faced.

He could have played it safe had he have really wanted to.

Most of those fights weren't viable at MW. Roy didn't beat Castro and Hopkins until 92-93.

Moving up to face Toney was very big at the time.

It was a big fight, and considered by many to be a more dangerous fight than some of the guys you've listed.

It's easy for people to blame Roy when they're not acquainted with the facts.

To my knowledge, Joe has never possessed psychic powers.

Again, in the early 00's, there was no Lacy and Kessler.

You have to try and view things from how they looked at the time.

Joe was repeatedly telling the media that he wanted the biggest fights.

He wanted recognisable names.

Fair enough, we've already established that he couldn't get fights with Ottke and Hopkins through no fault of his own. But until Lacy and Hopkins started making waves, there was nobody left to fight. It was the perfect time to move up, especially as it was so hard for him to make weight. I can acknowledge that he went through a divorce and had injuries. But he had no intentions of moving up. And if Lacy and Kessler hadn't been there, he'd have probably just plodded along at the weight regardless.

The truth is, he could have been up at LHW, even before he tried to fight Hopkins. He could have been there in the mix with Roy, Dariusz, Nunn and Hill etc, instead of fighting guys like Sheika etc. He was too good to be defending that WBO belt. His first real golden opportunity to move up, was in 2001 when he had Showtime's backing. They wanted him to fight in the U.S. but he wasn't interested.

I've told you countless times that I'm a fan of his. But I'm a realist. His resume isn't great, and his reign certainly isn't legendary.

 

Not a man born of his mother....

Except for the lab tech who tests his piiss

 

The Kentucky Cobra,

He did beat Hill. But when he went into that fight, he had to know beforehand that the WBA wouldn't have allowed him to keep his WBO belt alongside of it.

I refuse to believe that he wasn't aware of that.

The WBO were formed from the WBA and there was bad blood between them.

I'm absolutely certain that he could have kept both of those belts had he have relinquished the WBO.

He didn't seem at all fazed by what happened.

Dariusz did great for himself, but his resume speaks volumes.

Roy did miss fights. But despite the long list that gets thrown around, there were only a handful of those that actually truly wanted to fight him.

When the Dariusz fight couldn't be made, he went on to pursue big fights. He went on and had big fights. Whereas Dariusz just continued to do what he'd done previously.

The issue is simple:

He played it safe his whole career, which culminated in him fighting a faded legend who he'd never have fought when he was anywhere near his prime.

 

@Loudon apologies for the brief intermission on the Zaggers thing - but how do you see prime Jones handling the Industrial Era's finest - Steamroller and Gassiev?

 

I've not really seen Gassiev mate.

I don't know anything about him yet.

I think all of these current guys would have been extremely dangerous for Roy. But I also think that the version of Roy who fought Ruiz would also have given these fighters huge problems with his speed.

 

yep, I confused jones with Hopkins
I replied to you regarding the point you made again here. read initial reply to this question

 

you aren't reading the initial reply. I never suggested Calzaghe needed to go to the US to face SMW challengers, since he was clearly the man the beat.
I said he needed to go to the US if he wanted to fight the best fighters in the world in their prime

if all you're looking for is a reason why second and third tier US fighters travelled to wales, you can have it.
it doesn't change the fact that Calzaghe avoided the US like the plague until the greats of his era were dethroned and past prime

 

because tszyu stated that he would go where the money is, and hatton put pressure on warren to make the fight happen. once that fight happened, warren tried to line him up with stiffs again, so hatton left him, had a handful of fights in the states, and got career-defining fights against pacman and floyd