Who has a better KOs, TKOs, & RTD ratio than Wilder?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by GlaukosTheHammer, Feb 10, 2018.


  1. lewis gassed

    lewis gassed The Bronze Dosser Full Member

    25,429
    19,508
    Nov 24, 2013
    Nope, Wilder was set on having another bum defense after Molina that summer.
    He never wanted Povetkin.
     
  2. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,298
    4,628
    May 13, 2014
    In that case it's simply punch snap and weight transfer. Foreman was a puncher but never really snapped his punches. He threw like his fists were cement blocks. He moved guys when he hit. Marciano and Wilder snap their punches better, tensing in forearm and fist right as they connect with the target while punching through it. Hearns did too. The snap of the punch is the difference between putting a guy on ***** street and putting him out cold.

    Marciano and Wilder are very snappy punchers. Also they both control the distance so well for their respective body types. Marciano through constant pressure and Wilder through his reach and jab. So niether would be too far away to land, but not so close that they are jamming their punches.
     
  3. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

    60,632
    22,905
    Jul 21, 2012
    Why didn't Povetkin force the mandatory? You seem to believe Charlo has the power to force Golovkin out of his rematch with Canelo? ...Checkmate:69:
     
  4. GlaukosTheHammer

    GlaukosTheHammer Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,835
    2,067
    Nov 7, 2017
    I dunno if you missed it, but when I was pressed to be specific about what I meant by power I did say energy transfer. So...as far as I can tell you agree you just don't like my terms. I'm a bit busy presently but i'll come back and elaborate.
     
  5. lewis gassed

    lewis gassed The Bronze Dosser Full Member

    25,429
    19,508
    Nov 24, 2013
    His promoter should have, he wasted all summer trying to negotiate with Haymon only to realize later on Haymon had zero interest in that fight.
     
  6. chitownfightfan

    chitownfightfan Loyal Member Full Member

    34,569
    1,280
    May 31, 2010
    Exactly.

    KO/TKO

    It's like the lines have become so blurred. Depending on the ref, the commissions, the country....

    There's just no way to use the official ruling as a statistic to measure a fighters power.
     
    escudo and JoffJoff like this.
  7. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,298
    4,628
    May 13, 2014
    TBH I havent read through the whole thread, just replied when you quoted me. In that case, yes we agree.
     
  8. OpinionOfACasual

    OpinionOfACasual Boxing Addict banned Full Member

    5,111
    3,981
    May 3, 2017
    @GlaukosTheHammer

    Are you going to keep ignoring me?

    If I landed a right hook which instantly killed my opponent, it would be classed as a TKO.

    During a KO the referee believes your opponent can continue.....
    During a TKO the referee believes your opponent is unable to continue.....
     
  9. GlaukosTheHammer

    GlaukosTheHammer Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,835
    2,067
    Nov 7, 2017
    I'll explain what I meant. Don't feel bad if you don't want to read it, it's cool.

    For me to do this I have to use some level of basic human body physics terminology, I don't mean to be a dick or sound like I'm trying to talk above anyone, I just don't know how to say this in boxing terminology. I'm gonna ask rhetorical questions, that's not to be a dick it just helps me explain.

    In kinesiology we look for what we call kinematic chains in the body. Kinematic chains are kinematic pairs that work in unison. Kinematic pairs are parts of the body that don't necessarily have to directly interaction, but can.

    The only time I've heard this explained in boxing terms is in Jack Dempsey's Championship Boxing: Explosive Punches with an Aggressive Defense. Jack called it the powerline. So if you're familiar with Jack Dempsey's Powerline you know kinematic chaining just fine. Jack is another more KO than TKO fighter.

    Anyway, everyone who loves boxing enough to sign up on a forum already knows punches start in the foot and end at the knuckle. What I don't think is often actually considered too much is the bone structure each punch absolutely requires to handle Newton's Third Law. When the fist hits the head the head also hits the fist. There's a whole lot of wrong and not all that much right, but there is enough room for variance in punches. So, when energy is direct, and you know it is direct because the bone structure you're seeing in front of you must be direct and the punch moves a man what happened to the Third Law? The opponent was hit in such a way that when their bone structure, moment of impact, generated the opposite energy it was redirected into the air. When energy is direct and the fist bounces off and the guy walks through what happened to the Third law? The opponent was hit in such a way they were able to generate more energy in the opposite energy reaction than the puncher put into the punch. When the the energy is direct and it lands clean and is actually absorbed by the opponent's skeletal structure how did the puncher defeat Newton's Third Law and force the opposite reaction force to cause more, not less, damage to the opponent? By having a pure kinematic chain from knuckle to foot and foot to canvas the puncher generates a wall if you will or acts like a wall, remember I am speaking about moment of impact. Unless the opponent is equally grounded, postured, and positioned to receive the energy and dispose of it the energy generated by the punch and the energy generated by the reaction to the punch have nowhere to go, they pair and bounce off the floor back into the opponent where they are absorbed, again assuming he's cause unprepared like.

    So what you're calling snapping I'd call energy transfer and absorption rate. Either way, dunno how much I agree because I'm unsure of how much I agree with myself. I'm still trying to explain to myself how Wilder got a KO to TKO ratio like he's fighting in the early days of the 20th century.

    I should retract all those "anomaly in history" statement though definitely. Looking more at the oldens, they got KOs, even guys like Johnson who were not real big on knockouts of any kind.

    So maybe the question is what does Wilder have in common with old school queensberry more so than Marciano.
     
  10. GlaukosTheHammer

    GlaukosTheHammer Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,835
    2,067
    Nov 7, 2017
    Yeah bubba and if anyone had them a slew of TKOs that looked anything like that there'd be no question who has power, but when most TKOs result in the ref arguing with the man he saved there's little argument for the TKO having been anything but referee intervention.

    We all know what could possibly happen in fantasy land but my commentary is on reality and the reality is there's a reason beyond level of competition and location that explains why AJ's opponents are left standing and Wilder's are left folded. I'm open to ideas, pitch one. Why didn't AJ fold cans when he fought cans?
     
  11. thesmokingm

    thesmokingm Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    19,033
    4,323
    Nov 18, 2009
    Dude you are like entering Michigan Warrior status for pure stupidity.
     
  12. OpinionOfACasual

    OpinionOfACasual Boxing Addict banned Full Member

    5,111
    3,981
    May 3, 2017
    Have you seen Joshua's fights?

    Whyte - On the floor, tangled between the ropes with no idea where he is, waved off.
    Breazeale - On the floor, in pain, face down, no idea where he is, waved off.
    Molina - Looked almost out cold, being held up by the ropes and unable to defend himself, not a clue where he is, waved off.
    Love - Rolling around on the canvas, tries to rise gets to his knees and falls back down....tries to rise, gets to his feets, stumbles into the ropes and goes back down, waved off.
    Leo - Knocked to the floor, unable to move his legs, waved off.

    All ruled as 'TKO' victories, yet were never going to make the 10 count.


    Wilder's power means that his opponents were unable to make the 10 count.....

    Joshua's power means that his opponents are not even capable of showing the ref they're fit to receive a 10 count.....
     
    escudo likes this.
  13. OpinionOfACasual

    OpinionOfACasual Boxing Addict banned Full Member

    5,111
    3,981
    May 3, 2017
    Molina, after sharing the ring with both said that Joshua hit harder and was more dangerous as he could bang with both hands and a variety of power shots, e.g. hooks, uppercut etc.

    If you don't want to believe his words, how about just watch his actions.

    Against Wilder....

    When tagged by Wilder he attempts to fight fire with fire, he's willing to throw and trying to land.



    Against Joshua....

    He goes defensive mode the first second he is tagged in the fight. Never throws and just wants to survive.



    In fact, after watching both finishes again, against Wilder, Molina would actually have had the chance to beat the 10 count had he been giving a chance. Against Joshua, he didn't know where he was 30 seconds after the fight.
     
  14. thesmokingm

    thesmokingm Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    19,033
    4,323
    Nov 18, 2009
    Everyone gets right back up with Wilder lol.
     
    lewis gassed likes this.
  15. OpinionOfACasual

    OpinionOfACasual Boxing Addict banned Full Member

    5,111
    3,981
    May 3, 2017
    You'd think Wilder had actually Decapitated an opponent the way some go on about his power.