Why does Frazier match up better h2h against "modern heavyweights" than Marciano?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mr.DagoWop, Feb 19, 2018.


  1. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    What difference does twenty pounds make?
     
  2. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Could you imagine him getting dropped by Oscar Bonavena? Who was inferior to both of those fighters in almost every way.
     
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  3. Hannibal Barca

    Hannibal Barca Active Member Full Member

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    Punch resistance. Wearing an opponent down by leaning on him constantly. Harder to move in clinches.
     
  4. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Punch Resistance? Do you think that Marciano would have gone down twice at the hands of Oscar Bonavena? Do you think his extra 20 lbs is what made him last to the 5th round in the second Foreman fight?

    Frazier was shorter he would be ineffective at wearing an opponent down by leaning on them. Strength in the clinches comes down to strength. Marciano was just as strong if not stronger than Frazier.
     
  5. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    To be honest I feel Frazier was the better fighter. That's why he matches up better
     
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  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    You'll get that question answered for you when you fight someone 20lbs heavier!
     
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  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Shorter than who?
     
  8. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yeah i would. Unlike most of Marcianos top opponents, Bonavena was a strong hungry prime contender. Infact that description pretty much only applies to Marciano himself, thats how poor that era was.

    Maybe marciano was a bit stronger compared to his opposition, but his opposition was alot smaller and more worn out than fraziers.

    Dont get me wrong getting dropped twice by bonavena does NOT look good, especially if the only real prolific banger on your resumee treated you like foreman treated him.

    In a historical context I rate both guys lower than most people here, doesnt mean that they were bad people or didnt deserve the utmost respect, but i got frazier H2H a bit higher.
     
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  9. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    I'm not sure he does.
     
  10. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Because he already proved himself against much larger opposition than Marciano did, thereby answering the question before it even needs to be asked.
     
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  11. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    "Modern Heavyweights"
     
  12. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    I've fought folks on the street and sparred in the gym with guys with a lot more than 20 lbs on me. All it does is make them slower. Strength is what matters in regards to weight. If you aren't stronger but you weigh more then you're at a disadvantage because odds are your stamina is worse too.
     
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  13. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    What do you mean worn out? Do you think Charles, Moore, and Walcott were tired climbing up the steps to get in the ring? Did they just run a few miles before the fight? I'll agree that they had a lot of rounds under their belts but Moore was on a win streak, Walcott had just beat Charles and Charles had lost only 2 out of his last 13 fights to atg prime light heavyweight Harold Johnson and rising star Nino Valdes.

    Hungry contender or not, Oscar Bonavena was a very limited slow plodder. The only things he had going for him were his chin and heavy hands.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Oh okay ,but both are shorter so I not sure what you are getting at.
     
  15. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Interesting. If you go to any boxinggym in america 99/100 fighters will tell you the exact opposite. That size matters alot. From my own experience sparring a much heavier guy is like facing a force of nature, or trying to hold off a grizzly with a pencil, incredibly hard to stand your ground if he realy wants to hurt you, sparring a guy who weighs 20 pounds less is more like restraining a hysterical woman or an upset child.
    Obviously a bit of a hyperboly but you get my point.

    Its also plainly visible in modern boxing how much weight matters, even if its just a 5lb jump, it can make a huge difference and thats despite the smaller fighter being allowed to gain weight himself
     
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