Why does Frazier match up better h2h against "modern heavyweights" than Marciano?

Frazier looked fairly strong to me when he actually lifted Ali up and moved him when Ali was mucking about on the ropes in the FOTC.

There is a massive difference in functional ring strength and gym strength.

Ali actually had no problems at all clinching and bullying Foreman unlike Frazier who always punished Ali when he went to the ropes. It all depends on styles and fighting methods.

 

So...am I the only person that feels like Frazier and Marciano both ARE "modern heavyweights"?

In the sense that you could more reasonably match them up with each other or anyone from either one's era - or even the present day - than you could match any of the above with anybody from, say, turn of the century (19th-->20th) on back.

I don't buy into the whole "now we're in the SUPER HEAVY era, where past greats can't hang!!!" fever. We had 2-3 really big guys dominate for a decade or two. Most 7-footers are still garbage, same as ever. Not much has changed.

 

Looking at the tale of the tape Marciano is a smaller man than Frazier.
[url]https://i.imgur.com/GLhcDQS.jpg?1[/url]

[url]https://i.imgur.com/qwwZTIL.jpg?1[/url]

Marciano only had a 39 inch chest which is pretty amazing. His reach was the same as Roberto Duran. His biceps were a mere 14 inches.

Frazier has six and a half inches in reach on Rocky, 4 inches in thigh size, larger biceps, Joe has a 12 inch ankle compared to a 10 inch ankle for Rocky.

To say Rocky is the same size is simply ludicrous.

Cheers All.

 

The ones who insist size doesn't matter are the ones who add an inch to his height and10lbs to his weight,and say," if he were fighting today ,blah blah blah".It always makes me smile.

 

OK, but what advantages do you see this as giving him?

Presumably we don't worship weight to the extent that it is a merit in its own right?

 

Yeah I saw you with RichAndHuff,boy was that a sneering post ,and your one with Contro,condescencion or what!
Not for me thanks.

 

Hi Mr Janitor, They have weight divisions for a reason amigo. All things being equal the bigger man usually beats the smaller one.

Frazier is MUCH faster than Rocky and also bigger man. I believe those two factors alone are a big advantage when facing so called modern heavyweights.

Frazier while prone to swelling was also way less susceptible to cuts than Rocky was.

I also believe Frazier has a MUCH better jab than Rocky.

Put it this way, I believe the Frazier who fought Ali in the FOTC would have torn Jersey Joe Walcott a new b um hole and they would have counted old Jersey out around the eighth round if he had the misfortune of facing a prime Frazier.

Frazier was a really bad guy to fight if you are smaller than him. Similar to Mike Tyson in that regard.

Cheers Mate.

 

I understand that there are size advantages for a reason.

I understand that Frazier was faster.

I understand that Frazier was bigger.

What I am disputing is that Frazier was stronger, which presumably is the implication, when his weight is cited as being an advantage?

I would be more impressed by that line of argument, if we were talking about a fighter who was known for his physical strength.

 

How would we know which of them was stronger?Marciano was fighting small heavyweights who for the most part were past prime.Only one of his challengers topped 200lbs Cockell, and he was fat. Weight gives you and advantage in several ways it helps in the clinches , inside work, and leaning on,it often helps in absorbing a punch too, strength is only one facet of its possible advantages.

 

I would argue that Frazier was so deficient in this department, that if you thought that Marciano was one of the stronger fighters his weight, then it would be hard to see Frazier as having an advantage.

Yes Marciano's challengers were not the biggest, but neither were Frazier's for the most part.

At least Marciano seemed to hold his own with everybody in this regard.

 

Hi again Mr J, I would simply say that " I believe " Frazier had at least as much functional ring strength as Rocky on what I have seen on film. Frazier actually lifted Ali up and moved him in the corner at one stage of the FOTC. Something so called strong men like Liston and Foreman never accomplished.

If you can show me these examples of Rocky's superior physical ring strength then I would love to see them mate.

 

Frazier was a great fighter, but he was an mediocre athlete.

It is unlikely that he would have been very successful in any other sport.

Marciano whatever his physical limitations, was one of the better athletes in the history of the division.

I am frankly thinking that Marciano's athleticism, very likely trumps Frazier's weight advantage here.

 

Out of genuine interest could you tell me more about why you consider Rocky a top notch athlete? I thought it was notable that he became a great fighters in spite of his limitations?