Who are the most important innovators?

There is more misinformation than truth in this thread so far.

Every boxer in history, who was a dab hand with the pen, claimed to have invented something.

A very high standard of proof should be required, before entertaining such claims!

 

Contribute some then, janitor. The forum certainly needs it at this point, doesn't it?

 

Floyd Mayweather Jr should be applauded. His influence over the past 15 years or so has been underestimated. I think he was the first fighter to really show to the world through his popularity that defense is just as important as offense. There were fighters before him who showcased their amazing defenses, but none had the influence that Floyd had on the boxing public. His popularity and therefore his style have helped to bring through current, younger fighters (The likes of Josh Kelly, Buatsi, Crawford, BJS etc to name just a few)

 

Evander Holyfield for bringing boxing training out of the dark ages.
Yes Michael Spinks and other boxers had done it before but not to the
extent and professionalism of Evander.

 

I have read about a number of fighters adopting aspects of Joe Gans' boxing style, but I don't know how many actually did it. On the other hand, I have read a lot of newspaper articles and some books about many fighters being influenced by Mike Gibbons' boxing style.

- Chuck Johnston

 

A shout out for Benny Leonard

 

Dempsey
Tunney
Marciano
Ali
Moore
All were number one boxing pioneer's that brought a new way to win the game

 

Hi mate, nearly all of of John L Sullivan's fights were held under bare knuckle rules with grappling being near as important as punching so Corbett's victory ushered in the new age of gloved boxing. He was " the right bloke at the right time " in my opinion. I don't believe he was any sort of genius or super fighter but he was the first guy to hold the heavyweight championship who was considered to be a boxer father than a fighter. In the day he was known in the U.S as " the father of modern boxing ".

Gans was a bit of a hero of mine as a young pre teen kid reading n learning about boxing. His story was so sad as well.
Nat Fleischer used to rave about him and his technique. His Wiki page is an interesting but very sad read.

I believe he probably had tuberculosis when he fought Battling Nelson who evidently was allowed to use all kinds of foul tactics against the " old master ".

George Dixon and Barbados Joe Walcott also deserve mentions as great black pioneer fighters from the turn of the 20th century era.

Cheers Matey.

 

What would you say Marciano brought new to the game?

 

Yes I knew that, but Petrolle and Mathews ,[later in his career,] were trained by Hurley not Gibbons,had they even seen Gibbons? Hurley said Mathews wasnt even a real fighter when he agreed to take him on.I suppose if you are talking strictly legacy then Gibbons has a big claim.I am not intending to be negative about such a master boxer. Is that footage available?

 

this is an excellent post. Great points. The Lennox and Vlad comment is right on. Changed everything. Might eventually lead to a superheavyweight division.

 

I think a fight which was innovative in someways was Hagler vs. Hearns. In that it is mentioned even outside of boxing still. 33 years later. I think this shows beyond that fight that boxing history still has a strong role in sports in general. That the sport will not every fade away. It is engrained in all sports. I am not sure MMA could ever have that kind of impact.. And I respect the MMA, I am just mentioning boxing many years of history.

 

I don't mean to be a dick, please don't take this as argument but rather augmentative or additional.

Most of John L.'s career was spent ducking black fighters who were using a style mostly alien to white america.

I'll do a better when I get around to doing a Mendoza thread. Less "Guys like" and vague terms like that and more exact, but, essentially, and to the best of my knowledge, Mendoza trains Richmond and Mollyneaux. Mollyneaux inspires more black americans to try their hand in English boxing and Richmond is there to train them. You get guys like Sutton, and Jemmy Johnson, etc. Hell, one might even count Kendrick. Johnson brings what he's learned to America and that really shakes up boxing as best I can tell for all of the Americas. Not because Jemmy was very successful, but because his ideas were. Out of that you get guys like Hewlett who did a massive amount of training and retires as a Harvard professor of PE, and George Godfrey.

Now, interestingly Corbett is considered the father of defense in America. Why is that? What is he doing that Mendoza School didn't? Well, he's being white, American, and fighting Queensberry. Mendoza was some ye old jew no one knew about or cared about in the US. The black fighters who still carried Mendoza School training, like Godfrey, were ducked several times.

The only time John L. would have seen a fighter move like Corbett was when he watched Godfrey fight. Without racist blinders on what was cowardly from 1790 to 1892 became genius when Corbett used it against Sullivan. If John, HW champ of the word, baddest man on the planet, and the sob who'd whoop any sob in the building, hardly knew much about the black code or Mendoza school what did the general public know?

Godfrey was undoubtedly seen by these guys, not because John was actively ducking but because George was also operating out of Boston. John ref'd George's Colored Title fight with Hadley, yes the Professor. Godfrey's even the man they throw Jackson at when Peter comes stateside. George wasn't just the black champ the white champ avoided for colorline, he was the gatekeeper for John and maybe a little James too. Jake fought George four times before he got to Sullivan. Jackson fought Godfrey then toured with Godfrey in an exhibitions tour before he go to try Corbett.

My point here with George is my lineage of training I laid out here made be a bit vague and shaky, however the fact that there was a defensive fighter that was well known by the sport and sporting men but most of America didn't know or care to know about just one generation before Corbett is not even a little bit disputable. The only reason America was unprepared and taken aback by Corbett's fighting style is because they didn't watch black fighters implement the same style for the past forty years even when that style got as close to their protected white champion as it possibly could just one generation before Corbett. When John is reffing Godfrey vs Hadley he's reffing two defensive fighters.....it was that damn close to John.

I'm claiming Corbett is boxing's Elvis. I wouldn't say he stole the black style but rather was inspired by and adapted it while being too racist himself or by way of his time to admit it or bring light to it.

George Godfrey was one of the first men in boxing history to have visibly diminished skills in his later years to be highlighted by the press, it's how he got the "Old Chocolate" moniker. It's also very telling as to what kind of fighter was highlighted in the press up to the 1880s. I like my Tom Hyers and Yankee Sullivans, but defensive they were not. Straight up merciless killers is what they were.

" the right bloke at the right time " is exactly how I see him.

 

Marquis o Queensberry I'd say. Didn't he do away with the chains they used to wrap around their fists and ban throttling?