At what point did modern boxers surpass old ones?

There is no specific point, it's a continuous evolution.

 

Holyfield was the first roider I know of. It came in from pro wrestling.

 

Ali would retire Wilder. I think Ali beats Tyson as well

 

Boxing modernized around the 40's and continued to improve until around the 60's. Then there was been a notable decline since the 90's. The idea that boxing has gone through a straight-line evolution towards improvement is false. It's not nostalgic at all to look at the top 10 of boxing's historic divisions in past decades and see a notable gap in the skill and completeness of fighters. Many fighters today can't rely on their jab or fight on the inside or don't know how to cut a ring off. Many 2nd and 3rd best contenders of yesterday would beat several of the champions of today. The Heavyweights have a size factor to consider, but until you get to the 30's, it's more than fair to compare fighters decades apart because the skill-set went largely unchanged.

 

I’ve always assumed the opposite was true- that modern fighters pale in comparison to the older classic guys; say from 1940 thru 1980s. The only weight class where’s there’s any noticeable difference is in the heavyweights, who are much bigger but lack the skills and athleticism (Lennox Lewis being a notable exception). A couple of reasons for this might be that back in the day boxing really only competed with baseball as being the preeminent sport (in America) and people were just harder then. Also, money has increased greatly in boxing thereby allowing new fighters to fight much less for more. Guys like Robinson, Walcott, Charles and Moore had to fight more often. I seriously doubt if they could make 7 or 8figures for a hyped up ppv (think Floyd vs Ortiz) that they would’ve fought so often. Also, the old boys had 15 round fights and same day day weigh ins.

 

I think some divisions are stronger than ever. Usyk and Gassiev would probably beat any cruiser of the past including Holyfield. Golovkin and Canelo would be competitive vs any previous 160lb fighter. Heavyweight scene is improving, bigger men, bigger hitters, just not US fighters. Scene was centred on Germany for ten years and now it's UK ppv. But that can all change quickly.

 

Good post Bogotazo. I dont understand how these so called hardcore boxing fans can look at 90s, 80s, 70s film and not see how much more complete and dedictaed boxers were compared to today's.

Like you said, most top fighters today lack fundamentals that would be considered basic in those eras, such as feinting, using the jab, fighting tall, chin tucked in at all times, head movement, waist movement.

It seems today's fighters are bulkier anf rely more on athleticism than skill.

 

Tyson wasn`t that much bigger than Ali in terms of weight, in fact sometimes in the 70`s Ali weighed more than a prime Tyson plus no fighter has used the moves Ali used to beat Cleveland Williams since at heavyweight.

 

Ray Robinson was ahead of his time so was Willy Pep, no-one can use footwork the way Pep did.

 

Forget about Ali, Frazier would fold Deontay like a lawn chair.

 

They also rely on:
1. weight bully tactics
2. challenging the weakest title holder in the division
3. acting like businessmen and promoters despite the overall lack of formal education and contacts
4. using the high risk low reward excuse to avoid perceived threats

 

I agree with Bogotazo. I think technically fighters are no better now than they were in previous eras...as Bogotazo suggested probably a technical decline. But S&C has developed by light years which makes a fighter who twenty years ago wouldn’t have been able to live with a top contender or champion more able to “survive” or whether the storm of a superior fighter...hence so many anti climactic uneven, boring & ugly fights going distance these days. More guys are living clean and training right these days....

 

You make lots of good points that I agree with. However, I don’t believe the fighters would fight less if they had the final say. I believe fighters fight less often for a few reasons, namely:

1. The insistence that all good to elite fighters MUST fight on TV. Think PBC who suffers from having too many fighters for the limited number of TV dates. As a result, the best PBC fighters fight no more than twice a year.

2. High cost for the necessary insurance to put on local shows.

3. The reluctance to feature fighters who do not own glossy records. One of the most recent exceptions to this rule, Orlando Salido, was initially brought in to help marinate the Gamboa/JuanMa López fight. He after the first win against Lopez, his record was 36-11-2