Could the 75/76 Version of Ali be seen as good enough to beat most 80s Alphabet Champs?

During 75-77 Ali beat (on the scorecards at least) Lyle, Bugner, Frazier, Young, Norton and Shavers, which is more than any 80s heavyweight outside of Holmes and Tyson did in their career.

This version of Ali didn't really kick anyone's ass, but he was good enough and canny enough to find a way to win against all but the very best. He was virtually impossible to knock out, and knew how to time his efforts to catch the eye of the judges. Even when he didn't, he would probably get the benefit of the doubt in any close decisions.

While an in-shape and motivated Witherspoon would be a real handful for mid 70s Ali, there isn't any reason to believe that the rest of the champs outside of Holmes and Tyson would be more likely to beat Ali than the fighters who tried and failed. Even the 1981 shell of Ali was competitive with Berbick.

 

I agree with Momus - one way or another, he beats them all. The 80s heavyweight contenders are a bit overrated on this forum in my opinion.

 

The 75 put to Manila for sure ... after that it gets sketchy .. Holmes is left out as he beats that Ali too ..

 

There's a big difference between '75 Ali and '76 Ali. Manilla took so much out of him.

'75 Ali would be favorite against all the alphabet champs and would beat them if in proper shape. '76 Ali would be more touch and go. Several close, controversial decisions in that mix.

 

People tend to "underrate" just how dangerous Ali was for a couple reasons.

First, he wasn't menacing looking. He was a handsome guy. He had soft features. He joked and smiled a lot. Most heavyweights of that era weren't known for smiling and joking. On the contrary, they tried to act and look as tough as possible.

But he proved in the ring he was as strong and arguably tougher than the baddest guys of that era - like Foreman, Lyle, Frazier, Shavers, Quarry and Norton.

Second, unlike most heavyweight champs in history, if Ali didn't fear his opponent, he'd often pretend the guy was killing him. He sparred with the fat Mayor of Atlanta in 1975 and let this bloated guy just unload on him, and Ali would fall down and let the guy stand over him with his arms raised. Guys like Foreman or Dempsey or Frazier or any of them would never let someone "pretend" to destroy them. Ali did it all the time "IF" he thought the guy posed no threat.

That is a rare quality for a heavyweight champ, because EVERYWHERE they go there is some clown who thinks he can "take" the champ. So heavyweight champions are always a little on the defensive when they go out, because they get called out a lot. Ali just tended to laugh it off, because he didn't really think anyone could take him.

I bring this up because this question reminded me of an article I read in a magazine about how Ali went to Kentucky after beating Foreman. It was really early 1975. Like January. He stopped in Louisville to see family and visit old friends. He went to a boxing gym, and there was a big guy there that everyone said he had to get in the ring and spar with. It ended up being Greg Page. Page was only a kid, like 16 or 17, but he was already a heavyweight.

Ali had his street clothes on but took off his coat and put on gloves and got in with Page. Page, of course, was anxious to show his stuff. He was very fast and strong and nearly as big as Ali. Ali had no idea who he was. And Page came out and threw a hard shot at Ali and Ali lost his temper and just tore into Page. And people standing outside the ring started yelling for Ali to stop and take it easy because Page was only a kid.

Realizing Page wasn't a real threat, Ali backed off and they sparred for a round or two before Ali got out. But he let Page know not to start unloading on him again.

I don't see anyone from the 1980s beating Ali in 1975/76. Tyson at his best might have a shot in late 1976. But Ali wouldn't take him lightly.

The Ali from 1975, nobody from the 80s does. He stopped Foreman, Frazier and Lyle over a 12-month span (October 1974-October 1975), and picked up paydays against Bugner and Wepner, too. But someone said Tim Witherspoon might beat him? A 25-year-old Foreman couldn't but Witherspoon would? Please.

Spoon got outjabbed by Pinklon Thomas. He wasn't going to do crap to Ali.

 

Lol yes 81 Ali was competitive with berbick and this guy was one of your 80s champions

 

The best Pinklon Thomas has exactly the tool to beat Ali...the shotgun jab, which neutralizes Ali's now more flicking jab. If Bob Foster's / Norton's jab can trouble Ali, then Pinkie's can too. The real question is, can an inexperienced "big fight" Pinkie turn up the heat, and really win the Judges' eyes like Neon Leon Spinks I was able to do.

 

I would have to disagree a bit with that post LH.

I believe it was the speedy type jab that Foster, Young and Norton had that gave Ali trouble as did Cooper's double jab which was thrown with a fair bit of speed. Even Ron Lyle had success with his jab vs Ali as he also did against Foreman. All these fighters had pretty good feet as well.

Bigger, slower guys with typically slower type power jabs like Foreman, Liston, & Mac Foster didnt have much luck hitting Ali with their jabs. I would rate Thomas in that category, he was no speed merchant.

Add the fact that Pinklon lost to Berbick and drew with Coetzee and I cant see him beating Ali pre Manila.

Cheers Mate.

 

good opinion...I see your side of the fence too.

 

75 yeah, but by late 76 he was hanging by a thread, and may already have had Parkinsonians (it takes a few years to show physically in symptoms).

His reign as an elite was over by 76, meaning someone with leons speed and tank would have a fair chance to beat ali.

 

Post Manila Ali was basically a shell in my opinion Herol.

 

yuh he had that atg chin and will but everything else was faded to world or sub.