Holyfield and headbutts

Larry Holmes is one of the few that admitted that he could fight as dirty as anyone else especially with the thumbing and the low blows.

 

Anyone who has spent at least a year in a gym can look at Holyfield body especially from 92-97 and can immediately tell. It was obvious and blatant to anyone who is an athlete themselves or has at least spent some time working out. No he wasn't that heavy and big but the "look" is distinct and obvious.

Completely Shredded which he already was before 92 but afterwards he had round and full muscles as if someone had blown them up from the inside with air with a bike pump. You don't get that when you get that look and "muscle volume" when youre that ripped without taking tons of juice.

Big, ripped, natural. You only get to pick 2 out of 3, and that saying is for bodybuilders, not boxers.

The whole 90s was a juice-fest. The Heavyweight division looked like a Mr Olympia contest.

 

Most great fighters know how to use the dirt as its a necessary weapon at times.Especially heavyweights post WW2.

Holyfield was certainly in that category as were Wlad ( clinching and leaning on guys ), Lennox ( holding and hitting expert, ask Grant ), Tyson ( all kinds of dirt ), Holmes ( as stated above ), Ali ( great grappler and clincher, like Holmes was accused of thumbing ), Foreman ( watch the Joe King Roman fight ), Frazier ( he must have hit Ali low at least 100 times in their three fights ) Marciano ( VERY dirty fighter ) and Ezzard Charles ( as good with his head as Evander. He butted Louis to bits ).

Cheers All

 

I know, but due process and all that!

 

As it's been said, Holy wasn't the only dirty fighter - Lennox, Holmes, Ali, Wlad, Tyson, etc etc.

Bruno fought very dirty, too. Watch his fights vs Ferguson, Coetzer (late in the fight), Evans and some others, and you'll see that he breaks every possible rule - holding and hitting, hitting on the break, hitting behind the head, elbowing etc. The referees allowed him to do it, so no questions to Bruno here - he just did his job.

 

golota bit samson pou'ha, head butted danell nicholson and of course, gave bowe a vasectomy!

 

The one great I do not recall accused of cheating is Louis. That fair to say?
I have mixed sentiments...Fighters should not be given a free pass do anything they might be able to get away with. Honor & fair competition, while not possibly winning underservedly, should mean something.

If I am rating two roughly equal boxers, & say one is a clinch-aholic & the other rarely violates the rules-I rate the first guy higher. Because he is more likely to bee able to win according to the rules. Not seizing an unfair advantage.

Though many boxers do not strategize cheating-it is tough not to rely on all extralegal tactics when you are under siege & trying not to get overwhelmed. It is largely a matter of degrees.

Now if a fighter retaliates reasonably in order not to possibloy LOSE to a fighter breaking the rules-tit for tat, or something like Frazier being better able to hit Ali on the hop than do what Ali was, pulling his head down continually &/while tying him up...

That man I give a pass to.
We will never know for sure if Ali could have beaten Frazier fairly in the second fight-though likely he could-because unfortunately he continually clinched & the referee allowed that relative farce.

 

Very dirty in my opinion

 

Holyfield could be dirty for sure, with his head our via low blows. No issues at all there.

If you look hard in the weeds, the big Mike Tyson supporters are barking, yet Mike was DQ'd for biting Holyfield, and owner of one of the best elbows of all time. He didn't respect refs at times waving off fights either.

A good question to ask is how often did dirty fighting change the results?

Tua's left took after the bell sure did, otherwise Rahman had him. Well maybe it wasn't intentional.

I'm pretty sure Goleta's biting of pouch save him from at least a knockdown.

 

Became an instant fan of Tue. Night fights after that Golota bite...even though I watched it regularly before that.

 

Well down and fading in the late rounds, Louis landed a mean left hook below the below to floor Schmeling in the first fight. He says it was an accident, but when the foul happens in a time of desperation, I become more suspicious.

Louis also belted Schmeling in the back, when he turned it. A foul? Maybe not.

Louis was pretty clean overall, but he had many easy nights.

Biggest heavyweight champion foulers?

Johnson, Dempsey, Marciano, Liston, Tyson and Holyfield are my picks.

 

Funny that you mention that, it reminds me of the first Holyfield vs Lewis fight. Lennox wore his trunks up to his chest while his corner complained about Holyfield's.

 

Not sure about the foul in the first schmeling fight with Louis , but in the rematch when he got him in the back may have been a accidentally thrown punch , catching max as he turned. Louis was doing a complete demolition job on him in there , so basically no need to foul .Then again its protect your self at all times ..even when getting battered !

 

I'd actually say the earlier lighter weights is worse. That was just a free for all, headbutts, knees, eye gouging.
"Walsh (1993 p 26) reported that Jack Curley, famed boxing and wrestling promoter, once gave the following description of the Ryan-West battle for the Middleweight Championship in 1901.

"In the fourth round West butted Ryan in the mouth, splitting his tooth, and Ryan, turning to Tim Hurst, referee, mumbled, 'What do you call that, Tim?'

Tim looked at him blandly, 'You've got a head too, haven't you, Tommy?' he asked.

Ryan took the tip and in the fifth round butted West in the mouth, splitting his lips and dotting the canvas with his broken teeth. After that he ripped West's lacerated mouth with his left wrist and forearm whenever they went to close quarters and at times the floor of the ring was so wet with blood that between rounds employees of the club mopped it with towels to provide a dry footing for the fighters."!

 

Tyson deserved to be disqualified against Ruddock without a doubt.