Sullivan fight of the week Goss vs Sullivan

The fact of the matter is that from 1880 until 1887, Sullivan was as far ahead of his opposition as any champion ever was. The quality of the opposition was weak however but Boxrec should simply be ignored when studying this era, you need to go to the primary sources yourself.

 

Janitor,

My problem is I can't see much value with the opponents Sullivan beat, none of whom were in Corbett's class.

If Charley Mitchel or Jake Kilrain is his best win, what did he really prove?

A key point, I'm not saying pre Corbett did not have talent, I'm saying Sullivan never fought any of them, guys I would pick to thrash Mitchel, and some who did beat Kilrain.

Best talent from 1880-1892 outside of Sullivan:

Corbett
Jackson
Slavin
Goodard
Pat Killen
Maher
Denver Ed Smith
Fitzsimmons
Dooley

Had Sullivan beaten two men on this list, his resume would greatly enhanced. We don't know if he could have, and I think he losses to Jackson or Slavin.

I keep seeing backward steps that oh, he wasn't in his prime by 1885. Okay, I'm asking which opponents in his prime that I don't know much about could stand with the above fighters? Who were these core Sullivan era fighters? Their size, records, and such are requested.

 

I think we are missing data, that guy your referring to according to original reports had " a pair of blackjacks for fists." A true pound for pound type of puncher. 20 years before, when he was in his prime he took a cannonball to the chest in the American Civil war and was back in action the next day.

 

He did well then because the Civil War ended 2 years before he arrived in the US.

 

For information, 10 Feb 1888 , "The Inter Ocean" Chicago, list the prominent heavyweights as; "John L Sullivan, Charlie Mitchell, Jack Burke, Jake Kilrain, Jem Smith, Pat Killen, Patsy Cardiff, John P Clow, Dommic McCaffrey, Bill Bradbury, Jack Ashton, Mike Conley, Joe Lannon, Joe McAuliffe, Paddy Ryan, Glover and others"

 

I look like king kong compared to those two I sure hope that they are posed pics from when they were retired. Retired a long time ...

 

There's people down my local gym that look better than Lennox Lewis or Muhammad Ali too. Doesn't mean ****.

 

I think we are missing data, that guy your referring to according to original reports had " a pair of blackjacks for fists." A true pound for pound type of puncher. 20 years before, when he was in his prime he took a cannonball to the chest in the American Civil war and was back in action the next day.

I was being humorous.

 

This is what I'm looking for. Sullivan was past it by 1888, some on the board are eluding to him being best judged before 1885, where the information on his best opponents is limited.

As for the group of people mentioned, it wasn't a deep talent pool at that time.

1888. Kilrain was old. Sullivan, past his best. Maybe Pat Killen had something and was the best of the above lot.

 

While I like the list, its very biased. Peter Jackson and Frank Slavin ( Slavin blasted out Kilrain twice ) are not on it.

Why aren't they listed?

"The Inter Ocean" Chicago, list the prominent heavyweights as; "John L Sullivan, Charlie Mitchell, Jack Burke, Jake Kilrain, Jem Smith, Pat Killen, Patsy Cardiff, John P Clow, Dommic McCaffrey, Bill Bradbury, Jack Ashton, Mike Conley, Joe Lannon, Joe McAuliffe, Paddy Ryan, Glover and others"

Still waiting to hear more about these pre 1885 heavies and their accomplishments that Sullivan defeated.