With the Ortiz victory, does Deontay Wilder already surpass both Klitschko bros on the ATG list?

with a win over a 38 year old fatman? no

you'd need about 10 of those to surpass a klitshko.


atg lists are another matter though, none of therse clowns are vaguely on itapart from perhaps wlad by sheer dint of being around for ages.

 

Nope , completely incorrect. Wins over non-ranked guys who are shot to pieces mean next to nothing. You may as well give credit to Povetkin for beating Lineal Champ Hasim Rahman.

The only prime Guy Suckton Igragabum fought was non ranked Ray Austin. He got floored and walked away with a draw.

The best prime guy Kong fought was top 5 rated undefeated Jennings who had just gave Wlad a good push. Ortiz battered him.

Ortiz> Sutlan...Thats all there is to it.

 

Wladimir Klitschko had problems with Tony Thompson so you obviously have never seen that fight either. If Tony was able to land so many lead LEFT hands , imagine what Ortiz would have done. It goes without saying that Sanders would have battered that Wlad too , which is why Wlad ran in fear from the rematch. And Sander wasn't even in his prime either which makes matters worse.
Imagine how easily a prime Sniper would fell Wladdy.. LOL

 

Thompson who gave Wlad problems would have clowned and knocked out last Saturday's fat and totally gassed out Ortiz.

 

Wladimir Klitschko would have almost no problems with the slow Luis Old-Tease that fought Deontay Wilder. Corrie Sanders is much faster. Not even a valid comparison.

For the whole fight, Wladimir Klitschko never got caught once by anything meaningful or significant by Tony Thompson. Simply because, the problems he had against Corrie Sanders were fixed and Tony Thompson, nor Luis Old-Tease are as fast as Corrie Sanders or punch from similar angles.

Luis Old-Tease would get knocked out worse than Kubrat Pulev did by Wladimir klitschko.

 

Nope! Sultan Ibragimov > Luis Ortiz

When Wladimir Klitschko fought Sultan Ibragimov. Compared to Luis Old-Tease, he was faster, just as powerful, was in his prime, had better reflexes, had faster footwork, was more elusive and was simply the superior boxer. Period!

Fact 1 : Sultan Ibragimov won a world tile whilst Luis Ortiz never did. That alone makes Sultan Ibragimov > Luis Old-Tease Deal with it!

Fact 2: Sultan Ibragimov beat Evander Holyfield and Shannon Briggs. That also > anything Luis Old-Tease accomplished.

What the hell did Bryant Bummings achieve in his career? Lose to an old Wladimir Klitschko without beating anybody else of note? So no! Beating Bryant Bummings means nothing. It isn't as impressive as actually winning a title.

Being a champion > being someone who is undefeated and being ranked in the top 5.

Ergo, beating Evander Holyfield for a title > beating Bryant Bummings.

In no way shape or form is Luis Ortiz greater than Sultan Ibragimov. Especially the version that Deontay Wilder faced who was old and had high blood pressure whilst not being allowed to use medicine. Wladimir Klitschko beat a PRIME Sultan Ibragimov! Prime Sultan Ibragimov > any version of Luis Ortiz (especially the version Deontay Wilder beat).

Oh and BTW, Bryant Bummings couldn't even beat Mike Perez. The same Mike Perez who was brutalized in one round by Alexander povetkin and shutout lopsidedly by cruiser weight Mairis Briedis. That is the level Bryant Bummings is at.

 

I heard on youtube, I think it was Hatman, that Dillian Whyte seen Wilder get dropped from who they suspect is Klitschko in sparring.

I know that would only be sparring but if were going to compare Wlad to Wilder that might be worth a mention.

 

Ortiz moved and punched faster against Wilder than Thompson against Wlad. The eye can clearly see that. Thompson was slow as molasses as it is , but the knee injury he carried into the ring took away pretty much ALL of his movement.

You lie again by saying he was never hit by Thompson , punch stats show Thompson out landed him on total punches and on power punches.Then you have his busted up face and Manny Steward going crazy in the corner to drive home that fact even further.

Interestingly , both Wilder and Wlad threw their opponent to the canvas during the fight , but Wilder backed off whereas as Wlad intentionally threw himself down onto Thompson's knees to take away the tiny bit of movement he had left his his injured legs. Its all on film.

Another factor to consider - Wladimir Klitschko spent every round hugging and mauling Tony because he couldn't outbox him. A DQ loss would have been harsh but fair since it wasn't an isolated case. Ortiz wouldn't have accepted that leaning and would have body shotted and uppercutted Klinchko out after the first couple of initiated bear hugs.
Unlike Thompson he had the strength and power.
We all saw Kong blow out Thompson like a blow torch tru candy floss. Not a single huggy bear tactic required.

 

Suckton won a title in what was one of the weakest examples of a belt changing hands in HW History. Wilders win over Buffet Stiverne was worth more.

All you need to do is watch Briggs against White Wolf and then against Iggy to know this. White Wolf made a fool out of Briggs for 11.5 round before getting clipped and taken out.
Briggs who had chronic asthma problems at the time turned up to defend against Iggy weighting a career heaviest of 275 pounds. He could neither move nor throw a punch and retired immediately after wards. The Briggs in his 40's was better than that version of Briggs.

Even when faced with a sick incapacitated Briggs who could barely throw a punch , Iggy still barely committed to any offence for fear one touch might shatter his glass chin.
Both Wilder and Ortiz would have levelled that Briggs in ugly fashion.

Iggys best prime opponent - non ranked Ray Austin who he drew with

Ortiz best prime oppponent - top 5 Jennings who he flattened.

Kong> Barney Rubble

 

Wow spot on

 

Whatever! Still, fact remains. Sultan Ibragimov won a title whilst Luis Ortiz couldn't.

Luis Ortiz could barely even hurt British journeyman Dave Allen. I wouldn't count on it!

Sultan Ibragimov > Luis Ortiz all day long.

And even if Luis Ortiz's win over Bryant Jennings is better than Ibragimov's best win. Deontay Wilder never faced that VERSION of Ortiz so that point becomes automatically moot.

The rest is mumbo jumbo utter speculation. Fact remains, Sultan Ibragimov achieved more at heavyweight than Luis Old-Tease.

 

I don't care about punch stats. Tony Thompson never hit Wladimir Klitschko with a SIGNIFICANT / MEANINGFUL punch that was damaging. Thompson only managed to land ineffective blows for the most part.

Luis Ortiz isn't doing anything to Wladimir Klitschko at his best. Luis Ortiz's power is overrated and he hasn't even knocked out a single opponent UNCONSCIOUS that was ranked in the top 10. His best KO was over an old Tony Thompson. I doubt Luis Ortiz even hits harder than Samuel peter.

Wladimir Klitshcko's busted up face was most likely caused by a clash of heads IIRC.

If Luis Ortiz boxes cleanly, he gets knocked out. He isn't fast enough to evade Wladimir Klitschko like Sultan Ibragimov. And he isn't fast and powerful to land knockout punches like Corrie Sanders.

Luis Ortiz against Deontay Wilder was anything but fast. He was slow as molasses. Much slower than Sultan Ibragimov or Corrie Sanders.

Sultan Ibragimov would box circles around that old Cuban with high blood pressure.

 

It would be very hard for Deontay to pass the klitchkos for a few years of fighting top guys. It is not that easy to pass someone who fought that long.

 

Meaningless. Ernie Shaver and David Tua never won titles whilst Charles Martin and Sam Peters did.

False. Ortiz battered Dave Allen and sent him to hospital afterwards.

You're just repeating yourself now. Its been established that Jennings > Austin. So you lost this one , but you can come again.

 

You don't care what the punch stats show because they ruin your argument. Thompson landed plenty of blows on Wladimir Klitschko which was was pretty shocking when you look at how slow he was.

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No , its Wladimir Klitschko who is the dirty fighter , not Ortiz.. If Wladimir Klitschko approached Ortiz is a fair punch for punch contest , he'd surely get blasted outta there within 3 rounds max.
Hell , even Tony The Tiger could have outpointed Wlad if you stripped away all his illegal tactics.

Iggy would run away and lose every round like Malik Scott did. He's not beating Ortoz if he can't beat bummy Ray Austin. Even early Wilder victim Harlod Scorniers was able to beat Ray Austin. LOL