Prime Larry Holmes vs Evander Holyfield

I have to respectfully disagree. Although I consider Holy a great fighter I do believe he's a bit overrated on here. Rich nailed it well in his post

 

I'm surprised how many think this is a done deal and even a schooling. Holyfield is miles better than anyone Larry ever beat and far lesser fighters had him in trouble. It's a great matchup.

 

I agree....Holyfield brings all that but in reality Holmes style was difficult for Holy and this is just my opinion Holyfield without the threat of danger in a fight was flat...I don't think he went into the 1st Moorer fight thinking it was a challenge much in the same way he did with Holmes....Holmes would never really bring the dog out in Holy because he would not fight him on Holyfields turf he was strategic fighter who could control a fight with distance, movement and jab and for that reason his fights could be boring but effective. Holyfield was the superior athlete and a wider array of great skills Holmes did much more with less.....he was a very cerebral fighter with some junkyard dog....I like the fight but I never underestimate the guile of an ATG who went 48-0

 

I didn't know. Sorry to hear that.

 

Holyfield miles better than Lorenzo Zanon???? Say it ain't so!!!!

 

Never really understood this line of thinking In Re: past prime Holmes did okay, so a prime Holmes would win. What about their actual fight was all that competitive to make you believe a Prime Holmes wins "relatively comfortably"? I didn't see all that much competitive about their fight. I especially don't think he was getting hit all that easily in actuality. If Holyfield didn't believe you could hurt him, he'd have no issue getting into a firefight or taking blows to give some. That is what we saw with Holmes. He didn't respect his power, nor fear much of anything from him; so he did get hit more than he could've if he was more cautious in his approach as he was with other fighters. I'm not saying a Prime Holmes couldn't win, he certainly could if he fought with the right approach, but their actual fight didn't show me that it would be an easy night at all.

 

Holy gives Holmes a harder fight than Williams but still loses? Are you assuming incompetent judging?

 

Lol .Incompetent judging
In boxing ?
Never !

 

Moorer in the first Holyfield used his jab to dominate Holyfield.
Holmes jab far more educated. Holmes on pts.

 

I see, the Holyfield of the Moore fight is surely the best version we've seen, and the one to put into fantasy fights...

 

I'd say it's more a 'styles thing' than a 'levels thing'. Predominantly the out-boxer Holmes, in his prime, would have been a difficult match-up for a Holyfield who, despite being a high-level boxer-puncher, was always more comfortable and looked at his best when in a toe-to-toe war.

And, because I can't see Holyfield out-jabbing a prime Holmes, I think he'd have had to try and force that kind of a fight but, not all that successfully, against a Holmes with his legs under him.

(I might also suggest that Holyfield was not miles better than Norton )

 

I will be honest about one thing though. Evander has a better overall resume than Holmes, and to me he is just as great if not moreso. He had to fight bigger guys, and even though I pick Holmes to win, I would not be shocked if Evander wins.. Evander fought everyone..

 

The thing i think has become overplayed by so many is the whole Holmes style thing. There seems to be a belief that he was invariably on the outside piling up points and jabbing his opponents to ribbons. This is a long way from true. Holmes was caught up with many times in many fights and fought flat footed a lot more than claimed.

Weaver, Witherspoon, Norton and many others had plenty of exchanges with Larry and were anything but (just ) kept at the end of the jab and comprehensively outboxed thru the course of the fights. He was in trouble against a handful of guys that were notably lesser fighters than Holyfield.

The thing is Larry was actually quite good when exchanging. He had a good chin, excellent powers of recuperation and fantastic heart and determination. He also didn't mind going the hammer and had quite a bit of a temper inside the ropes.

I don't see Holmes jabbing Holyfield to death and cruising around comfortably on the outside. Holyfield would make him fight more so than his previous opponents as he is a top level fighter and has plenty of skill. There would be exchanges, lots of them.

Tho Buster was out of shape have a look at how ridiculously sharp Holyfield was against him and how easily he dealt with his jab, an extrmeely good one. Even when Douglas was fresh and sharp Holyfield was the far better fighter.

Holyfield could box extremely well as seen. Benton's plan was to have him box and await the openings. I could see this Holyfield giving Holmes a great fight and sharing wins in a trilogy. Benton would have an A+ strategy in place and Holyfield looking to brawl would not be a bad thing anyway. He has good two fisted power and Holmes is in no way a puncher. They would have some extremely exciting exchanges at times, many more than most would expect imo.

Norton was still pretty good but i don't see him being as sharp as he was in the earlier Ali fights.

 

Hey JT,

I do get where you're coming from and, for sure, there'd be exchanges because Holyfield would have to force that kind of a fight. But, as we saw, when they actually fought, Holmes didn't have difficulty finding Holyfield, when he threw his share of a limited output. Neither did he have trouble making Holyfield miss, whilst he was moving.

So my viewpoint stems from a speculation, based on what I saw happen, when a very old Holmes faced a prime Holyfield and then some questions like: What does a younger, even sharper Holmes do with better legs and more confidence in his output?


The point you make about Holyfield handling the Douglas jab is correct but, did Douglas use the jab that often and did he make it work for him, i.e. did he set anything up with it? Did you also notice how Douglas wasn't moving much against Holyfield? Rather, he was more or less standing himself up in front of him and, as soon as the Jab was dispensed with, Holyfield picked his moment and got in with his own shots on a fairly static target. (It's also worth noting that, in round 3, Douglas pretty much dispensed with the jab altogether and started leading with sloppy, telegraphed power shots - tailor-made for Holyfield.)


I don't see Holmes jabbing Holyfield to death and cruising around comfortably on the outside, either - but, I do see a prime Holmes being able to control the fight with the jab, with more confidence in his ability to let his hands go and with more movement than he was able to muster, at the age of 40-something. In addition, I'd say Holmes was more than able to handle Holyfield's power, even as an old man. So, again, I only see an improved ability to do in a prime Holmes.

So, whilst I have no doubt Holyfield would still force some of the action and exchanges, I see this playing into Holmes' hands, with him in a stronger position to control the action and get the better of that action, as it occurs. Competitive rounds but Holmes taking the comfortable majority.

 

You pick Holmes' absolute worst opponent, lol.