At what point did modern boxers surpass old ones?

no, i am kinda referring to before they became champ, to be fair.

hopkins fought at world level after winning his first major title, lots, and joe cowerzaghe also fought at world level at least 75% of the time after he challenged for his first major title too.

 

So you think that fighting Steve Frank and Andrew Council was the best use of his time? Likewise, Calzaghe fighting Branko Sobot, Tocker Pudwill, and Mger Mkrtchyan?

He did beat Ernie Schaaf and King Levinsky x2 in that period. Carnera's one of the worst champs in history but give the devil his due he's got a better record than Wilder.

 

not the best, he had some losers.

they are indeed shyt beyond belief, but i did say AFTER he won a major title, that is post lacy ( kessler bika hopkinsjones is about 75% good)

they all have.

 

You make a good point regarding quality vs quantity but what about someone like Floyd fighting Guerrero, Ortiz, JMM, Berto etc? In his case it was neither.
Also, you’re not addressing 15 round championship fights and same day weigh ins. Modern day boxing simply can’t compare to the golden era (up thru the 80s) because of significant rule changes that dramatically affected the sport. This isn’t to say that certain modern day fighters couldn’t have been great in the past, though.

 

I've only stated facts, and no, it's not a coincidence, but as I've stated so many times that you clearly must have a mental illness, boxing as a skill-sport cannot be reduced to size like other non-contact sports with no strategic element. There's really no point continuing this discussion because you simply won't acknowledge that fact. You don't care about analyzing the quality of fighters, only using one variable as a flimsy foundation for a hypothesis you yourself claim you can't prove. If you don't want to speculate as you claim, then don't, and be quiet.

 

No, you've only AVOIDED facts; they are the one thing you dread the most. You've only STATED subjective opinions, such as your unfounded and unprovable belief that boxing is a special snowflake immune to the forces driving all sports with quantifiable results. Again, nothing you say implicated refutations numbers 1-5. Another fail on your part.

 

Muh javelin records doe

 

Points well made.

There are exceptions to each and my post was somewhat absolute.

Guess I should have said in many instances and gone from there.

As for the lower weights, those guys tend to hang around longer in the ratings lists b/c size wouldn't be such an issue H2H.

But let's be honest bout the top 3 Emile fought.
They were generally the ONLY 3 lol.

The average contender in those days mighta had 4/5 fights vs the same 22-39 journeyman and had a 55-23 type record himself, even losing fights to cans with terrible CVs.

 

Yes because they're just lazing about 363 days per year - never anywhere near a gym or a boxing ring. Never wear gloves until professional bouts. No such thing as sparring or training at all.

 

Bingo.

 

Nobody is arguing that all modern boxers are greater than all older boxers, that I can see.

 

Sportsmen always improve over time.

Hence why in sports where it is possible to measure some kind of 'record', they're continually broken over time.

E.g. The 100m record has switched hands 18 times since 1964.


That's why when I see posts like "Who would win - Ali v Wilder/Joshua/Fury etc", it isn't fair to comment.

 

Not really. Take 1962 for example. Griffith went into the ring seven times that year, and six of those fights were against guys who were rated in the Top 10, or champions at one point in their career. You'll find very little chaff on his CV, which is why he's so highly rated.

 

thats one sport, athletics.

how is one sport, all sports. explain.

 

This. Same day weigh ins meant a 160lb fighter on fight night weighed 160 lbs. Now it's common place for tall guys to use diuretics to cut down and then balloon up on fight night.

This is why it isn't that impressive when modern fighters are champions in 4 or five weight classes. They aren't really moving up and fighting bigger guys. They just aren't cutting the weight anymore.

Hopkins was always a light heavyweight, but decided it was better for his career to cutdown to middleweight. Mikey Garcia also isn't really fighting bigger guys at 140. He just isn't cutting weight and for once is fighting guys his own size, which is why he doesn't have the monstrous power he had at 130 or 135.

Nowdays

175 weigh in = 185-195 on fight night
160 weigh in = 170-180 on fight night
147 weigh in = 155-165 on fight night
135 weigh in = 145-155 on fight night

When SRR challenged Maxim for the 175 title he weighed in under 160.