Who do you consider the best heavyweight of all-time?

Yeah, I was just thinking what a great difference he made to Spinks chances against Tyson.

 

"You better bury Ned right. Better not cut up or harm no whores or I'll come back and...."

 

Louis beat virtually every significant heavyweight that was part of his era and retired with one loss, which he avenged.

Ali beat virtually every significant heavyweight that was part of his era and retired with three losses, all of which he avenged.

If you want to argue that the heavyweight division was at stronger point or the talent pool much greater than Louis' era, then that's fine, I don't have a problem with that. Relative to their era though, Louis has to come out on top.

 

I was going to say Primo Carnera but then I changed my mind.

 

Ali would never have been let near a fighter like Schmeling, so early in his career.

 

Joe Louis fought his first rated fighter after only 4 months as a professional. Louis put him down for the 10 count in the 3rd. Louis fought his first former heavyweight champion after only 11 months as a professional. Louis was outweighed by 64.5 lbs, 3.5 inches in height, and 9 inches in reach. Louis put him down 3 times and had him holding on to the ring rope for dear life by the 6th round. Less than 2 years into his career Louis is put in with Max Schmeling, The Black Uhlan of the Rhine, deadly counter puncher and top level ring technician.

Who was Ali fighting after 4 months as a professional? Some dude that was 4-4 named Jimmy Robinson.
Who was Ali fighting after only 10 pro fights? 10-2 Sonny Banks. Ali down in the first.
Who was Ali fighting after 11 months as a pro? A bunch of cans.
Ali never fought a former world heavyweight champ prior to Liston.

Louis had it MUCH harder than Ali on his way to the title. That is indisputable. Louis had more success too. Put Ali in with Louis's schedule prior to winning the title and he would be ruined or at least have 1 loss. Carnera, Schmeling, and Baer are lightyears better than Banks, Cooper, and Doug Jones.

Not to mention Louis' title defenses were waaaay better than 60s Ali's. Some would even say 70s Ali too.

Has your mind changed even a little?

 

Fair go. Ali had beaten Liston twice a handful of bouts prior to the stage where Louis met the axe that was Max.

 

Ali

 

Don't look at the number of fights they both had.

Look at the time that they were both expected to undertake them in!

It is not a very subtle detail, but it seems to be lost on many!

 

Bouts aren't the only thing that matter. Time does too. That's why fighters today have less fights over a longer period of time. A fighter that has 25 fights today is ready for a title shot. Normally in Louis' day a fighter had 40+ at the very least. Louis was moved very very fast during his career and it was either sink or swim. Ali was moved like a slug compared to that. Had Ali not gone on to do what he did then Liston's rating would be much lower than it is. Losing to a fighter that had like 19 pro fights, none against any former world titlists and minimal wins over strong rated contenders.

Let's not forget that Ali had the international amateur experience and even won a gold medal at the olympics. I think the best Joe Louis did was win Chicago Golden Gloves. Ali definitely had the leg up in experience.

 

He can't get in the ring for him. You can't just disrespect all of Futches success based on one fight.

 

The best I've ever seen was Mike Tyson in 1988.

The greatest is Joe Louis and/or Muhammad Ali.

 

Futch is the greatest trainer of all time. Hands down.

 

The greatest fighter that ever lived was mike Tyson.

The greatest fighter that was ever born was george foreman who I believe was the only man that could stop a prime mike.

Most skilled would be mayweather or Roy jones

 

Please tell me you are joking?