Where do you place Marciano as an ATG, P4P?

Good stuff! To me, The Rock is one of those guys who’s legend is greater than his accomplishments. Frankly, it’s hard for me to see him beating other great heavyweights in their prime head to head, but nevertheless his greatness always shines thru. The ability to suffer greatly, carrying fight ending power deep into fights, great stamina and the fact he always seemed calm in battle and humble out of of the ring adds to his aura.
I remember a couple of quotes - hope I get them right: when asked if he could beat Ali - “I’d be arrogant if I said I could, but I’d be lying if I said I couldn’t” lol!
And I believe it was Archie Moore who said, “ Yeah, he hit me after the bell, but he didn’t mean it. And then I hit him after the bell in the next round, but I didn’t mean that either.”

 

p4p and h2h i would say top ten too but ali would rip his head off, skin first. Its bizarre that sometimes boxers are so arrogant that they cant see the truth.

Of course rock would push hm all the way, ad you'd not rule him out.

 

Marciano very underated in modern times, he became one of my favorite fighter throughout the years. I remember the old timers and the knowlegable boxing people rating him high. Marciano started late but he had a true warrior no quit spirit inside him, he fought his #1 contender 5 of 6 defenses and always rematch tough fights. He also retired at a time that he had a few more fights left. There were really no fights left for him Nino Valdes was beaten pretty soundly by the 5"10 Bob Satterfield & really zero money fights in sight. Marciano type style was hard on the body, he had to do soo much cardio to keep his body weight down and prepared for the 15 rounds so not sure how many years he could have fought at that level with that style. All in all I rate only Joe Louis and Ali above him but also think Marciano may have been able to defeat both men prime to prime. I am also a big fan of the erratic JJ Walcott who could beat the best on a great night

I think in head to head battles going through the ages very hard, these days there really is a case for Super Heavyweights and I think heavyweight can go from over 175lbs to 215 with super heavyweights over 215 but although these guys are giants very few of them would fit in to the ATG bracket right now we have the young bunch Joshua,Wilder etc, with Vitali,Vlad,Lennox, Fury? who would be rated.

Can we be sure any of these Superheavyweights could beat Joe Louis? or Ali? would you bet the house on it?

I still rate Dempsey, Marciano,Louis,Ali very high on my list of top 10

 

I no longer have a pre-1960 heavy in my Top 20.

 

Rocky could have easily gone 54-0 if he felt like it. Who was gonna beat him? Patterson? Carter? Jackson? Machen?

Nope.

 

If Ring Magazine had p4p rankings in 1955, he would probably only have been behind Sugar ray Robinson, and perhaps Archie Moore.

 

patterson. Rocky was unable to get matchfit with his injuries (back in particular), and without his fitness hes prone to getting outboxed by speed if he doesnt hae the fitness to rally for a late stoppage.

its tempting to think patterson goes down early, and yes thats a fair outcome too. but if he didnt, then ageing rocky is shafted, gets beaten just like he did to old louis years earlier.

rocky was struggling with old guys. Young world class guys would have minced him after next christmas.

 

Floyd wouldn’t be able to go 15 without getting destroyed by a single KO punch that we know Rocky would land at SOME point.

 

And even if Floyd beats him, the their guys I mentioned would all get smashed and they were all top ten.

 

you are aware that this is an old rocky we are talking about who wont get anywhere near the championship rounds?

patterson wasnt an automatic diver. he faced a just past prime liston, a ko master, thats what killed him.

 

Doesn't matter how old he is. The human eye can't see punch force. It's purely that gentlemen's opinion.

 

Several of Marciano's opponents were actually lighter then himself . I don't believe Turner actually saw Rocky fight ,and I personally don't set a great deal of store by many of his comments on boxing.
Marciano for me was a great fighter and champion.Under 190lbs you would be hard pressed to find more than 2 guys whom you would realistically give an even chance against him.imo.