Bareknuckle boxing manuels

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BitPlayerVesti, Mar 26, 2018.


  1. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    All of these can be found online, and the wording can be odd in the early ones, so I'm simply going to paraphrase as much as quote, just to get this done quick. I'm going to start with three including a very early one, and a quite early one. I made this because of the topic of skills of bareknuckle vs gloved boxing, and on the influence of Corbett. Only the last of which is really relevant. There are plenty of others however

    A Treatise Upon the Useful Science of Defence: By Capt. John Godfrey 1747

    Understandibly this is pretty basuc as it as much a fencing manuel as a boxing one, and also goes through the various "characters" like Figg and Broughton, as is so early. However it still emphasizes the importance of skill saying that lacking strength is better than lacking skill

    The focus is basically on how to punch and proper stance with left foot forward. This includes an easy flexion of the knee in order to be able to advance and retreat quickly. And a foreward lean to where your face is over the left knee.

    It then goes over the places that are best to hit and thier effects, such hitting the stomach or ear.

    The Modern Art of Boxing 1789

    It gives several rules to follow for boxing (with much more elaboration)
    Rule 1: Look your man in the face (unless you are fienting)
    Rule 2: Always parry blows from his left hand with your right , and blows from his right with your left. Except if he strike you with a left to your face, where you want your right free for a kidney shot, however this can only be done if you know the punch isn't going to be followed up
    Rule 3: Never use a cross guard (it says people did this but is vulnerable to pulling down the top arm)
    Rule 4: If you have an oppertunity always give the return (usually to the face)

    Describes three basic types of blows, round, straight, and chopping. It says unskilled fighters tend to use a lot of round blows, while skilled fighters mostly use straight blows, but there are times to use round blows. The chopping blow is a downward backhand, and says is especially usefull for returns

    Again notes usefull places to punch

    It then has a piece on techniques for throwing opponents, and mentions the technique of dropping to prevent being hit.

    Daniel Mendoza then has piece his lists some principles

    1 Be a master of equilibrium or be as good in a left handed stance as a right handed one in advancing and retreating
    2 Forward lean to keep the pit of the stomach away from the opponent.
    3 Block his left with your right and vice versa
    4 It is better to avoid a blow entirely than parry it.

    It then gives some other rules, the last of which is
    "
    If your adversary is ignorant of Boxing,
    He will generally strike round blows, or
    plunge head-forward. If he strikes round
    blows in an aukward, slovenly manner, con-
    tent yourself with aiming at his face and
    stomach, in a straight forward direction. If
    he strikes them quickly, stand chiefly on the
    defensive, stopping his blows, and throw-
    ing in the return whenever you find it con-
    venient, and when you perceive him wind-
    ed, hit as fast as possible, and follow up your
    blows. If he buts, or plunges at you head-
    long, you may either strike straight forward
    and catch his face on your fist; or turn
    round on your left heel, and let him fly over
    your thigh; or jump on one side, and strike
    him with one hand as he advances, and with
    the other as he passes by."

    It also includes an account of a fight between Mendoza and Humphreys, as well as various sparring drills.

    The science of self defence by Edmund Price 1867
    It starts by talking about arms and proper hand position, best summerised by the picture
    https://i.imgur.com/2ceSJ9T.png

    It says the feet are next most important to the arms.
    It says celerity of motion is always an advantage (celerity is your word of the day)
    It notes how movement of the feet can be used to give extra force to the blow.
    It says left foot forward is generally preferable.
    For amateurs is reccomends this foot position
    https://imgur.com/a/XY4L1

    With most of your weight on your forward foot.
    The left leg should be nearly straight by not stiff, while the right should be slightly bent, with the weight on the ball of the foot.
    Is says to turn a quater face from your opponent to make yourself a smaller target

    It says with the aid of your legs to move your body with your arms.
    It also says not to keep your feet in the same place but to feel your opponent out by gently moving around them

    It also says power generation comes from the legs.

    It says to always be read to move your head, with the chin slightly in, with the teeth closed firmly but not too firmly. And your eyes should be focus on your antagonist

    It then speaks to the importance of sparring.

    It then goes throught various blows, there is pages on each punch, this is only a very stripped overview.

    Blow 1 Straight left punch to the right of the face "This blow is employed more than any other"
    Blow 2 Straight right punch to the left of the face
    Blow 3 Straight left to the stomach
    Blow 4 Round right to the left ribs
    Blow 5 Round left to the right ribs
    Blow 6 Left blow to the center of the face while raised on the balls of your feet
    Blow 7 Right uppercut

    It then goes through a parry for each blow

    It then dedicates a section to more grappling techniques and headlocks. And then goes through striking the bag, training, how to cure and prevent corpulency.

    There is far more information in the intact manuels, and others, so if this interests you please look around for them, these and others can be found online for free.
     
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  2. louis54

    louis54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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  3. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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  4. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I am researching for a book I'm working on. BKB in early english boxing is what I'm currently working on. If you could provide links I'd be eternally grateful.
     
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  5. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    I can later, but if you Google the titles they aren't hard to find. The last is on archive.org
     
  6. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    The poster Cross_Trainer had excellent info on this type of stuff. Not sure if he still posts here.
     
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  8. GlaukosTheHammer

    GlaukosTheHammer Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm certain Self-Defense for Gentlemen and Ladies: A Nineteenth-Century Treatise on Boxing, Kicking, Grappling, and Fencing with the Cane and Quarterstaff by Colonel Thomas Hoyer Mönster would be of interest to you.
     
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  9. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    My advice on bareknuckle boxing: don't. I've broken my hand twice already. Discretion is the better part of valour.
     
  10. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Don't worry my interest is just historical. I've always thought modern bareknuckle boxing was largely from street fighting and back formed from gloved boxing. From what I've seen online at least it looks very different from the old prize ring

    I've often seen it said that bareknuckle boxers avoided headshots for fear breaking their hands. While they definitely seen to have been more cautious about placing shots, I think it seems this isn't true, headshots were pretty common.
     
  11. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Maybe my hands are made of biscuits or maybe I am just so damn strong (lol) but it seems to me that it's really easy to bust something up when hitting bare knuckle. On the subject of hand conditioning: it certainly is possible to do. Kung Fu guys hardened their hands by puching hot sand, and I know that Vovchanchyn took this technique one step further:

    "I noticed how Kyokushin Karate fighters trained. They sat on their knees and punched down into sand. I modified this approach to make it a little harder. I got into a push up position with hands outstretched. I would push myself up slightly into the air and would punch into the sand with my fist. This way the whole weight of my body drove my first into the sand."" -Igor V.

    It's instructive to note that he ended up with shattered hands from bareknuckle fighting anyway, and his hands were described as "bricks" by other fighters. This may have something to do with his "casting" punching technique too, though.

    Bas Rutten was a fan of hitting with the palm of the hand precisely because one can break one's hand so easily. You're actually trying to hit with the bone. It looks kinds wimpy but the results can be devastating. Here's Rutten on breaking hands and bone strikes, from 1:00 onwards:

    This content is protected
     
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  12. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    From what I've seen modern bareknuckle matches are pretty short high pace affairs. It seem in the prize ring they put a lot of effort in shot placement and proper punch technique which was mpre doable as they went at a slow pace wearing down the opponent, especially later on.

    I think long punch work better bareknuckle, you get less wrist bend hitting with the wrong part of the first etc.

    Hand injuries do still seem to have been a problem for them, I think John C Heenan lost to Morrisey because of a hand injury and it only took until Broughton to start training with gloves. Probably a good bit of selection for people with strong knuckles too. I think Mendoza had crazy amounts of fights growing up (which will also condition the knuckles)

    But, at least to my knowledge a lot of modern bareknuckle matches don't have the throws and grappling on the inside, and they also seem to use really small rings that don't allow the range style of fighting.

    I'm not trying to put it down, it is what it is, I just think it's very different.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2018
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