Ingemar Johansson vs Sonny Liston 1959

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Mar 30, 2018.


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  1. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    According to the inflation calculator, 1 million U.S. Dollars in 1960 would be equivalent to $8,411,858.11 USD in 2018.
    http://www.in2013dollars.com/1960-dollars-in-2018?amount=1000000
     
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Mar 31, 2018
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Mar 31, 2018
    #31
  2. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Johansson almost got knocked out by feather fisted London


    "I would have stopped the fight if the bell had not saved Johansson. He could not have continued." -Referee Andrew Smythe
     
    SuzieQ49, Mar 31, 2018
    SuzieQ49, Mar 31, 2018
    #32
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  3. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Chokelab would mortgage his home on Ingo
     
    SuzieQ49, Apr 1, 2018
    SuzieQ49, Apr 1, 2018
    #33
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  4. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    I actually think Liston was a little past it in '60!
     
    swagdelfadeel, Apr 1, 2018
    swagdelfadeel, Apr 1, 2018
    #34
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  5. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    :meparto::meparto::meparto::clap:
     
    SuzieQ49, Apr 1, 2018
    SuzieQ49, Apr 1, 2018
    #35
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  6. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Yes, very funny boys. You do like to joke together.

    Sonny would hammer Ingo anytime after the Patterson fights because Ingo was always going to be one of those guys who let being a champ go to his head. Much like Sonny as it turned out.

    1959 Sonny was behind Ingo in the ratings. Ingo was #1 and Sonny just #9. This was because at that point Ingo was more qualified than Liston was. He had beat higher regarded fighters by then. Erskine, Cavicchi, Cooper and Machen who he decimated.

    Sonny had one fight from 1955 until 1958. In 1959 Sonny had literally only been active for the past 12 months. Career-wise to climb to #9 in such a fast period, Sonny had done extremely well in those 12 months but was probably at a career disadvantage to somebody like Johansson who at that time was already poised to face a champion.

    I don’t think it that silly to give Ingo the slight edge in that timeframe. Especially viewing sonny against whitehurst, an opponent Archie Moore handled easier at the same period. Sonny had not beaten Foley or Floyd by then or put in that busy 12 rounder against Machen. It was those fights where Sonny paid his dues and was more the finished article.
     
    choklab, Apr 1, 2018
    choklab, Apr 1, 2018
    #36
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    One might almost say it was a recurring theme...
     
    McGrain, Apr 1, 2018
    McGrain, Apr 1, 2018
    #37
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  8. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    1. Sonny would hammer Ingo anytime from 1958-1963

    2. Erskine, Cavicchi, Cooper were all unranked according to latest boxing register edition when they fought Ingo. Cavvichi was hot garbage, a journeyman level at best fighter who lasted 13 rounds with Ingo. Erskine got annihilated in 1 round by Nino Valdes, whom Liston knocked out in 3 rounds in 1959. Cooper had some bad losses around the time he fought Ingo and was not ranked in the top 10. Cooper. is on record saying he was afraid to fight Liston. Liston beat more top 10 ranked fighters in 1958-1959 than Ingo did his entire career. Ingo only beat 1 fighter rated in the top 10 (Machen) his entire career.

    3. Liston was in his prime in 1959. Film proves this. So you favoring Ingo over Liston in 1959 means you think Johansson beats a prime Liston.

    4. Liston fought whitehurst in 1958, not 1959. I thought you were obsessed over the 1959 aspect? Secondly, Liston destroyed whitehurst. Whitehurst at the end of the fight did not know what his name was. He was out of it. Liston boxed beautifully against whitehurst, won every round, showed an incredible jab, and displayed ferocious power in his left hook. Listons reach looked abnormally long in this fight. And yes, he beat whitehurst up just as badly as Archie did. Archie was losing against whitehurst and needed a late Kayo to win
     
    SuzieQ49, Apr 1, 2018
    SuzieQ49, Apr 1, 2018
    #38
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  9. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Chokelab,

    How would Ingo defend against Sonny’s jab?

    What’s your defense for Ingo only defeating one top 10 ranked fighter before taking on Patterson? It’s the only top 10 fighter he beat his entire career other than Patterson for the championship.
     
    SuzieQ49, Apr 1, 2018
    SuzieQ49, Apr 1, 2018
    #39
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  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    I’m very amused he thinks Ingo beats Liston in 1959 but not 1960. He thinks Liston suddenly transformed from 1959 to 1960 Lol

    Liston was the same fighter 1958-1962
     
    SuzieQ49, Apr 1, 2018
    SuzieQ49, Apr 1, 2018
    #40
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  11. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yes but you are forgetting that "Liston was too slow" , and Ingo was tied up in rematches for 4 years, and my new all time favorite, he couldn't pay his taxes
     
    surfinghb, Apr 1, 2018
    surfinghb, Apr 1, 2018
    #41
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  12. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Don’t forget listons kryptonite is “Ingos right hand and movement”.
     
    SuzieQ49, Apr 1, 2018
    SuzieQ49, Apr 1, 2018
    #42
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  13. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "taxes"

    Anyone who scoffs at this as a motivation isn't in a high tax bracket. The example of Joe Louis was out there.

    In those days the tax rates ran above 90% in some cases.
     
    edward morbius, Apr 1, 2018
    edward morbius, Apr 1, 2018
    #43
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  14. surfinghb

    surfinghb Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yes I understand that .... But the example of Joe Louis is more why you should pay your taxes in the first place and this is what happens if you don't ... I think it's pretty meager excuse why they didn't fight
     
    surfinghb, Apr 1, 2018
    surfinghb, Apr 1, 2018
    #44
  15. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Why accept a second big fight in a year if most of the purse goes to the government?

    The question you should ask is why didn't Patterson fight Liston in 1961? The same reason, I think. Taxes made it advisable to wait until 1962.

    By the way, if Johansson fought the #1 contender going into 1960 rather than re-matching Patterson, he would have defended against Folley, not Liston.

    And if fear is Ingo's big motivation, why did he get in the ring in 1961 with Patterson after what happened to him in their second fight? How much worse can a KO be?
     
    edward morbius, Apr 1, 2018
    edward morbius, Apr 1, 2018
    #45
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