Would Wilder have matched Holmes unbeaten run if he fought Larry`s opposition?

Yes Holmes big fight was Norton and Norton was beaten by Shavers & dropped 2x by Ledoux in a draw after that fight. When he fought Weaver 18-9 record nobody knew who Weaver was & Weavers gallent effort vs Holmes got him a shot against Coetzee & Tate

the only other Holmes fighter that I feel would absolutly beat Wilder was Tyson....The Holmes era was weak could Weaver,Shavers,Snipes,Cooney land a hayemaker & KO Wilder? possible but not likely

 

So Wilder beats all these guys Holmes beat funny how on his way to 40-0 he never seemed to get in the ring with Tony Thompson, David Haye, Robert Helenius, he missed Wlad, flew home from Povetkin, but yeah I guess beating 38 Year old Ortiz and being tall and being American

If the Holmes era was weak what is this era?
He’s beaten two ranked fighters Stiverne who I don’t think anyone would pick Stiverne to beat Holmes top contenders and Ortiz at 38 years old (maybe older) twice suspended for ped use. What risks did he take coming up? He missed Thompson and Haye. Missed out on the hall of Famer Wlad. Povetkin fight fell apart. And Fury went nuts and disappeared.
That is a ton of talent gone right off the top.
Whether you agree or not on his ability I don’t think the level of competition right now is good, and even still at that, Wilder’s resume is light. Especially for a fighter that is already 32 years old.
He’s got heart, he is in condition, he’s tall and he has a big right hand. All good.
His footwork is horrible, his chin is suspect, his technique is awful and his resume is light.
So Basically at best i’d Say he’s a mixed bag. maybe right now with the division where it’s at that will let him carve out a niche but he’s a long way from being compared to what Holmes did running his record to 48-0. Holmes was facing big strong live bodies in their prime. Wilder hasn’t.
Heck he’s not even the best in his division yet.
Funny Wlad was ranked the best in the division for 11 straight years, Wilder has yet to even reach one year and so many want to anoint Wilder as some sort great. He’s so far away from that it’s not worth taking serious

 

Excellent post!!!!

 

I agree, Wilders best fight has been Ortiz & Stilverne was another overweight 80's heavyweight.

The jury is out for me on Wilder, even against the 39 year old Ortiz he did not look great but his power has been very good vs the opposition he faced. I think Holmes would have beaten everyone Wilder has faced but lets take a look
can any of these men beat Wilder
Cobb?
10 fight Marvis Frazier
Zanon?
Norton? a little on the downslope & chinny
Shavers punchers chance but slim chance
10-2-2 Leon Spinks
Bonecrusher Smith?
Scott Frank
13 fight Ocasio
14-1 David Bey
15 fight Tim Witherspoon?
18-9 Mike Weaver-Punchers chance but also can be stopped
Cooney never past 8rds Gerry had a punchers chance but could any of these guys take the return fire

Now can Wilder beat the men Holmes didnt face like Coetzee,Page,Thomas,Tate, Dokes, these guys offer some opposition but drug issues etc.

The big test right now for Wilder are Povetkin, Joshua, & top cruisers and I think questions may be answered

 

That’s a fair assessment. I’m a skeptic but if anyone wants to say jury is out and he’s to get some more quality wins his career will be legitimatized to the measure it’s being hyped up to at this way too early point,i’ll Agree.
As for the Holmes comparison I think we can agree America was turning out more quality American fighters in his day than America is producing today. The fact Holmes faced several of them, I think we can say his resume was inherently better, as Wilder so far has missed out on whichever region you believe is producing the lion’s share of top talent in this era. For America on the way up he hadn’t faced Thompson, and as belt holder he has not faced Jennings or Miller. If you believe England has the top talent he has yet to face Joshua, Haye, Fury Whyte and on the way up Chisora. If you believe Eastern Europe/Russia has the top talent he has not faced Povetkin, Pulev, Wlad before retirement,
So anyway you slice it - I think the quality of his opposition lags behind that of Holmes. The fact several of these men he has faced Molina, Duhaupas have given him trouble I am confident to believe Wilder would have accrued several losses on his climb to a belt during Holmes reign.

 

Holmes was Champ for 7.5 years and made 20 title defenses, even perceived unbeatable monsters like Tyson only managed 10 successful defenses during his original run when he looked unbeatable. I lived through all the Eras that we are talking about and it’s really hard to give a final assessment on Wilder as he basically has just now started fighting top contenders and is still writing his legacy. For example if he were to get knocked out by let’s say Povetkin or Miller or Joshua or whoever I think it would be much easier for certain posters to then envision him also being knocked out by fighters like Bonecrusher Smith or Tim Witherspoon or Mike Weaver. I’ll go on record saying I think he would struggle with those three fighters I just mentioned

 

People who think Wilder would go undefeated are just basing their opinion on what they're seeing out of the current version. Wilder of even a few years ago was an amateurishly crude fighter who was pretty easy to beat. That's why he was fighting the Jason Gavern's of the world for so long.

 

I'm not sure Wilder stepped up his competition level early enough, and eight fights is still a long way to 48-0. But even if we disregard those remaining eight bouts (where Wilder would need to see off guys such as Witherspoon, Carl Williams and Bonecrusher Smith), if we take a look at the last few corresponding opponents of Wilder/Holmes, in the immediate run up to their respective 40-0 marks, the level difference is quite apparent:
Matthew Greer v Earnie Shavers
Audley Harrison v Ken Norton
Siarhei Liakhovic v Alfredo Evangelista
Nicolai Firtha v Ossie Ocasio
Malik Scott v Mike Weaver
Jason Gavern v Earnie Shavers
Bermane Stiverne v Lorenzo Zanon
Eric Molina v Leroy Jones
Johann Duhaupas v Scott Ledoux
Artur Szpilka v Muhammad Ali
Chris Arreola v Trevor Berbick
Gerald Washington v Leon Spinks
Bermane Stiverne v Renaldo Snipes
Luis Ortiz v Gerry Cooney

 

Sort of like George Foreman?

 

The guys you mentioned are people he could have fought but his title is also protected by the organization he gets it from and that is much like the Holmes navagation in the 80's avoiding the guys who had a shot to beat him(rating controlled by WBC) forcing the avoided to fight for other alphabet groups.

Still with all the people he avoided Holmes still had a more alive crowd of opponents than Wilder at this point with the 39 yr old Ortiz standing out (Ortiz probaly better than 90% of Holmes opponents prior to losing to Spinks.

What I do like about Wilder is his size & reach and power & the fact that he can bang and based off that I think he would beat Holmes opponents, However I could be saying the same thing about Gerry Cooney if he went through Wilders batch.

While Wilder has shown a excellent offense, good speed,size & good angles we still has to see if he can take it based off the Ortiz fight. Joshua is heads and shoulder above him in quality opponents

These Are the guys I may place a bet against Wilder -Joshua, Povetkin, Uysk, Murat Gassiev

 

I think Witherspoon would destroy Wilder.

 

No.

 

How’s that?

 

how do we know. Anything Wilder has done isn't close to knowing if he could match anything Larry did. Two different levels of fighters. Wilder isn't even where Larry was when he beat Norton or Weaver.

 

For one, Foreman was something of a precious talent, winning a gold medal as a teen with such little amateur experience. In the pros he stepped up in about half the time and at a much younger age than Wilder. And that step-up was to ATG level, compared to Wilder who stepped against a weak alphabet-soup belt holder.