You never liked Trevor but it has good victories like against PRIME Page, Bey,Tate, PRIME Pinklon and Green. A better summary than Morrison,he was knocked out in 2 of 11 losses. Where is his bad defense or jaw? Morrison however was knocked out in all his losses and we must add the fights against puritty, c williams and razor. Never had any defense and less jaw. Finally rahman was in his youth when he won by points to an almost retired berbick, just because of the fight against Tyson, does he have a bad jaw? You are a completly NOOB GO TO SLEEP KID
If Joe Frazier had fought Ron Lyle and Mac Foster after FOTC and before Foreman I, he loses the belt.
I am surprised that this is actually be an unpopular opinion! A Boxing truism remains that styles make fights. I can appreciate that speculating what might happen in head-to-head matchups, especially matching fighters from different eras, maybe a fun exercise. However to claim it one has any verifiable insight is pure nonsense. There's also comical that these unverifiable, unprovable discussions off and become so heated and insulting for both the participants and the fighters being compared. The bottom line, is that you can ask no more of a fighter then to face all the available competition during his time. To then fault a Joe Louis for appearing flat in a routine title defense against middling competition is not instructive.
I've seen it volunteered in this forum as a way of measuring greatness ahead of actual résumé and achievement which is why I raised it. It's the idea that a fighter is greater than another fighter because hypothetically, he could have beaten them based on that person's subjective view. As you say, this is utterly unverifiable which makes it a meaningless distinction to make.
I think the vast majority of people around here discuss a fighter's "greatness" based on their views of the strength of his resume.
The people act like if a probable thing is like a fact.. Like if ali did beat marciano for real because many people think that he could do it. Like if holmes would have beaten foreman like a fact. Or prime tyson beating holyfield and lewis it never happened Just fantasy
The endless insult games get old. The actual discussion on Berbick would be much more interesting without all the superfluous crap, and I think both sides have some decent points otherwise. My take: Berbick was a better fighter than he gets credit for, and has a decent resume. I'd not favor him head to head against a prime Lyle, though. On an unrelated note, I'll also agree that Head to Head is a lesser way to evaluate fighters, as it requires too much speculation based off uncertainties and fantasy. If we're objectively evaluating a fighter, it's far better to compare records and legacy in their respective eras. In the interest of fairness, one can only judge a fighter by what they did in their time, and what they were up against. At the same time, I find a good quality H2H discussion that takes both fighters in a proper context to result in some of the most lively and interesting boxing discussions around, and I really enjoy reading a solid debate between some of the more knowledgeable posters on these subjects, even if I sometimes feel like I'm a few steps out of their league at times.
What about the amount of punches Ray and Duran were throwing and how many of those punches Duran was slipping, he was technically amazing on the inside in that fight!
I think Berbick was crap but on a side note do you know that he killed in Jamaican? He returned to the island to live and someone chopped his forehead with a machete over an argument about land that he owned! He also went to prison for three years and was sent down the same year Tyson got charged with ****!
Loma throws far more punches and is a come forward via angles, he also throws far more jabs, he constantly jabs but I don`t know if that would have been enough vs Floyd, that`s the one that got away.
Errr I don't think AJ is very good! Huge guy magnificent muscles etc I just dont.think he is much cop .not that big a puncher considering his huge size his stamina is suspect and his chin is a worry.interesting times ahead.