If George Godfrey had been allowed to take part in the elimination tournament of 1929?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janitor, Apr 7, 2018.


  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Does boxing historian kevin smith explain why he has no doubt ?

    Maybe he'll appear here to present some evidence.
    It's an interesting subject.
     
  2. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Godfrey in his prime was shredded

    https://goo.gl/images/HXzG1t
     
  3. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Yeah but I’ve never read a fight report so I can’t form my own opinion without having more information. He’s the only historian who told me the Sharkey fight wasn’t on the level, but I’ve had 4 historians tell me Godfrey was on the cuffs vs risko
     
  4. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "Wills was the darling of the media"

    Huh? It seems to me quote after quote at the time put Wills down in contrast to Dempsey.

    "Godfrey was one too many black contenders"

    I don't think the powers that be wanted any, but Wills was around for years before Godfrey even arrived on the scene. I think Godfrey would have been used as a way of diverting Wills from a title shot.

    "he was denied because of his color of a rightful shot"

    By Dempsey and Tunney. Wills is another matter. I don't blame Wills after he was made to wait on the outside for a decade for wanting HIS shot rather than puddling around with a colored championship which meant nothing financially.

    Wills had been a top contender throughout the Willard and Dempsey reigns w/o ever getting a shot. Trashing him vis-a-vis Godfrey makes no sense at all to me.

    Anyway, if Wills and Godfrey had fought, who in their right mind thinks the winner would have gotten a shot at either Dempsey or Tunney?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  5. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    I met him once at convention in Boston in 2006. He’s a great guy. Very smart, He gave me that quote about Godfrey a year later in the old black dynamite forum which had incredible information on black murders row from 1920s-40s. Haven’t spoken to him since, bug he used to post on the forum for a short while. Would love for him to be reading this thread and make a post.
     
  6. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Why have Godfrey win the first five rounds? Or lead after 7?

    "I don't buy that he suddenly lost his wind."

    It happens. The major weakness historically of big men was stamina.

    "reputable historians"

    The reputation of the historian doesn't make his source reputable. Who are the sources?

    The problem with Godfrey is when did he show this superior punching ability? Going through his record, his top KO's are old Fred Fulton, Larry Gains, Jack Roper, Jim Maloney, Monte Munn, Pierre Charles, Bud Gorman, and Jack Gross. Guys like Risko and Uzcudun would be a step up in durability over anyone Godfrey actually KO'd.
     
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  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    He also knocked out Sam Langford according to this report



    Aug. 17, 1921 – George Godfrey, Covington Riverside Athletic Club KO 1
    Unknown source: “Once while George (Godfrey) was still new to the game, he met Langford in Covington, KY, and thinking the time ripe to establish himself in the fight game, stepped right out at the bell to finish “Tham.” Really, George was just a big, green boy and when Langford saw what he was up to, the “Tar Baby” knocked him out in a hurry, “Jes to show you not to git smart wit yo bettahs,” as he confided to Godfrey after the fight. Time was telling on Sam, and Godfrey was improving.”

    “George finally stopped the veteran in three rounds in Burton, IA, but none of their matches really showed the two in fair comparison, for Langford was far past his prime, while Godfrey was still climbing.

    Speaking of his bouts with “Tham,” George says that the Boston Tar Baby hit him with the hardest sock he ever received, a terrific punch on the left eye. The immediate result was a closed optic and a blinded George, whom Langford proceeded to trim most beautifully.”
     
  8. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "Unknown source"

    This would seem to be less than solid information.

    According to boxrec and the cyberboxing zone, Sam Langford KO'd George Godfrey in one round at Covington, Kentucky in 1921. That part seems accurate.

    "George finally stopped the veteran in three rounds in Burton, IA"

    There is no Burton in Iowa. Neither boxrec nor the cyberboxing zone has any record of Godfrey ever beating Langford. Is this source the same "unknown source" as in the first paragraph.

    I can't say what happened or didn't happen almost a hundred years ago, but where is this info coming from and does the "source" such as it is have first hand info or is it repeating something like "I beat Sam Langford in Iowa."

    I stay skeptical until something like evidence is presented.
     
  9. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    The "why" is always the most important part. What you know is secondary to how you know it.
     
  10. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    If that fight was on the level, Langford knocked out a guy who outweighed him by a good 50-70 pounds of solid muscle.
     
  11. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I was trying to find anything on the Sharkey-Godfrey fight and found some odd text over a 3 day period. Didn't find much on what was written about the fight. Actually I found a more extensive article on it pre-fight, where Godfrey was referred to as the 'Californian' and the Pacific Coast heavyweight champ (which might add up having fought many times on the coast). As for the fight, now he was referred to as George Godfrey from New Jersey (I don't believe he ever fought in NJ before the Sharkey fight) and had a slight weight advantage over Sharkey - 220 to 187 (33 lbs. is a 'slight' advantage?). It briefly stated that Sharkey did all the forcing in the fight and won it on good boxing. Now, 2 days later, Godfrey, now referred to as Godfrey from Philadelphia, shows up in Philly and fights on the undercard to the first Dempsey-Tunney heavyweight title fight. And wins a 6 round verdict over one Bob Lawson and weighing 223 to Lawson's 180. Interesting the proximity between fights back then. Sharkey himself fought a week prior to the Godfrey fight.
     
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  12. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Maybe darling of the media was too strong a description but Wills certainly did have writers that championed for his shot against Dempsey. I was attempting to contextualize the situation to how Godfrey was treated. Wills got most of the oxygen in the room and ink in the papers compared to what Godfrey received by the time he arrived as a top contender.
     
  13. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Great stuff. The writers of the day took so many liberties to create their own narrative. Fighters backgrounds were malleable to the city they fought. Yes the frequency fighters fought at back then was insane, i’m Sure many fighters lost bouts due to lingering injuries from previous bouts that did not have sufficient time to heal.
     
  14. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well, looking at Godfrey's record, it appears to me that he didn't move into the top echelon of heavyweight contenders until he defeated Jack Renault (after earlier losing twice to him, once by KO) in June of 1925. Wills had been up there for a decade.

    So the two shared this "dark clouds hanging over the heavyweight division" for only about a year, with the press naturally championing the two fighting each other rather than Dempsey or Tunney.
     
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  15. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes I know Tunney offered to fight Wills, but Wills rightfully turned it down as he had already won several eliminators. And the Dempsey fight fell through a few years earlier. Both guys continuously had road blocks thrown their way instead of getting a shot at the title. Wills much more so. And his resume is much deeper.