1) Harry Greb 2) Sugar Ray Robinson 3) Stanley Ketchel 4 ) Carlos Monzon 5) Marvin Hagler 6) Mike Gibbons 7) Jake LaMotta 8) Charley Burley 9) Tommy Ryan 10) Freddie Steele 11) Mickey Walker 12) Joey Giardello 13) Rodrigo Valdez 14) GGG 15) Hopkins * I dont consider Charles or Fitz as middleweights
Pender beat a washed up 34 years old Basilio having his last fight. He beat Robinson 3 years after Ray ko'd Fullmer and he was 39years old! Pender wouldn't fight Tiger and was stripped of his title because of it he wouldn't fight Giardello or Hank either,he was the original cheese champ. Many didn't have Carter in front against Giardello ,that's nonsense! Produce 3 reports that scored it for Carter! Giardello didn't lose a third of his fights and no journeyman beats a prime Tiger! Giardello beat Jones twice and Robinson lost to Jones in his third fight of his comeback after being retired for 2 years. Steele beat Garcia Barth Lesnevich Dundee Jones Risko Overlin Krieger Apostoli That's nine world class middles Papp beat NONE Steele is a top ten middleweight ,Pender isn't top 30!
I like the post, and would only add that a lot of folks thought the Pender decisions over Robinson were rank home-town cooking. I supported Papp on an earlier thread dealing with his being ranked in the top ten for a couple of years by The Ring at middleweight. I thought that was fair off his record. Putting Papp on a list of all-time top professional middleweights? No.
Wow d'accord! I've never seen the Pender v SRR fights, so can't really comment. Papp was a good fighter and world ranked, an atg never.
I know he was light but guys like Fitz & Charles fought heavyweight, you can rank them in multiple divisions but it gets confusing to me, if I had to rate them at 160lbs they would rank high as far as talent. Jimmy Ellis was a middlweight & lost to Holly Mims,Henry Hank,Rubin Carter,Don Fullmer, & George Benton so although thats good company Ellis became known for his career as a heavyweight. Charles had 2 great wins over Burley,Teddy Yarosz, lost & drew with Overlin but then moved up to 165 & up There also is a case to be made at 175lbs in fact he could be the best but he had some excellent wins at heavyweight where he wona title. Fitz was a freak but and I know most of his fights were 165-171 hard for me to evaluate his ranking as a middle butI rate Charles,Fitz and Langford high on the lb4lb rankings
The difference is Jimmy Ellis was a journeyman middle at best. Charles really didn't do all that much at middle. There were a few big wins, but also losses. These two men made their reps at the higher weights. In a sense, so did Fitz, but he was actually the middle champ for several years, and defended the title. In Fitz's case, it is a bit arbitrary not to consider him a middle, in my judgment.
I would also consider Swede Berglund (Kreiger, Risko, Romero, Jeby, Chong) and Bandit Romero (Archie, green Marshall, Barth) world class.
As usual you fail to grasp the fundamental points.Basilio was a ring worn veteran having his 83rd fight his style meant he took a lot more punishment than the cautious boxer Pender who only had 48 fights in his career . Pender was stripped for not defending against Tiger. Nov 9 -Pender was stripped of the Middleweight Championship by the New York Commission; Dick Tiger was recognized as Champion Papp never beat a world ranked opponent. Robinson was having his third fight after a two years retirement when Jones surprised him.I never said he was over the hill but he was ring rusty.He obviously improved and regained his form as he got more rounds under his belt. Lesnevich and Risko were both middleweights when they fought Steele,both were ranked in the top ten at the weight at various times in their career. Basilio was a welterweight coming up when he fought Pender. Overlin and Apostoli were both middleweight champions! Vince Dundee was a very good middleweight about whom you obviously know nothing! Apostoli was no2 in36,no1 in37,no 1 in38, that is not fringe! Dundee was no6 in30,no3 in31,no 2 in32 that is not fringe!
Name these world class men Papp beat? In a total of 29 fights what was his best win? Apostoli is a top 25 middleweight, your problem is the extent of your info is what you glean from Box rec calling Overlin Apostoli and Dundee fringe contenders is the height of ignorance. I've had 3 pm's in the last month saying you are a complete nut case and advising I put you on ignore,I'm beginning to agree with them.
