Where do you draw the line at Heavyweight vs Super Heavyweight ?

https://www.straitstimes.com/sport/...ampion-manuel-charr-admits-hes-not-german-yet

 

Funny...I didn’t know charr defeated WBA champion Anthony Joshua to take his belt?

WBA already deemed Anthony Joshua super wba champion...so charrs paper brigade is nothing more than a comic relief

 

The modern super heavyweights are better than their early 20th century counterparts, but it has nothing to do with them being better from a technical standpoint!

They are just better fighters.

Let us start by looking at their standing relative to their era. Willard and Carnera were basically short tenure heavyweight champions, while Fulton was a very good contender, and Buddy Baer was just a good contender. Lewis and Klitschko Jr were champions who dominated definable eras, so they should be better on that basis alone.

Whether people like to admit it or not, Jess Willard's style was almost identical to Vitally Klitschko's. I have previously put up film, and challenged people to point out how Vitally was technically superior, and nobody was able to come up very with much. What makes Vitally Klitschko better, is basically the fact that he had more killer instinct, and much better ring generalship, and never turned up out of shape! The difference between them literally turns on that!

Primo Carnera is actually one of the better super heavyweights from a technical standpoint. Yes I said it! Under the tutelage of Abe Attell, he became a very polished fighter, who made perfect use of his physical advantages. He controlled range brilliantly, and was good both on the outside, and on the inside. He had good mobility, used clever little feints, and knew when to switch tactics if a fight was not going his way. His irreducible limitation's were that he didn't hit particularly hard for a man his size, and didn't take a punch particularly well either.

So in summary the modern super heavyweights are superior, but not for the reasons that their supporters assume. The big heavyweight's have always used the same basic styles, and have always been developed by the best trainers. The only reason that they could not build a Lennox Lewis, or a Wladamir Klitschko in the early 20th century, is that all the potential candidates were missing a piece of the puzzle!

 

Not at all , the guy who connected more won.you mental case..lol

If the gloves were smaller like the 10 oz ones the HWs used to box with we would see more knock outs in the the H.W Class anyway bc there's less area to block with...I


I've fought with old 70'sl. 8 0z gloves that are equal to about no padding compared to the 12 oz gloves at Modern HW and the weight and area you block with are a game changer...get a clue you fool!

 

I could point out a number of technical aspects Joshua Fury Bowe and Klitschko does better

1. Combination punching. All of hose above men put together crisp 3-5 punch combinations all the time. Name me one fight where carnera and Willard demonstrate such pedigree

2. Movement. All of the above men are light on there feet, bouncy, and glide in and out of range with little effort...willards feet are stuck in the mud and at times he looks like Bambi on ice. Carnera has no jazz or Rythm to his feet, and usually stands right in front of his opponent. He looks like an uncoordinated oaf. I won't even get into upper body movement which is non existent with Willard, and carneras upper body movement makes him look as stiff as a board. Compare it with furys or Joshua's whom make fighters miss with their clean fluid head movement.


3. Punching form, Willard and Carnera often paw their punches, throw arm punches with no body torque. Compare that with a Joshua who throws fluid punches with his body weight into every one of them

4. Jabbing...Carnera pushed his jab, used it as a range finder. Willards jab had no snap to it, he was hardly active with it...compare it to the power, snap, speed, and workrate of a Bowe or Klitschko

 

Yes, I’m the fool..compared to you?

I’ve boxed too. Let me tell you, boxing with 6oz gloves both defensively and aggressively is a whole lot more effective on both counts for the lighter, faster fighter than boxing with balloon sized gloves they use now.

It’s easier to get a direct hit with a smaller glove. When a fighter is outsized he needs to make an effect before the size of the larger man takes its toll. So the smaller guy has to work twice as hard, which used to be okay, if it meant he was getting a better ratio of cleaner hits on target.

If he gets less clean hits on target because his opponent finds it easier to block bigger gloves because he can shield a wider area it will reduce the success he has before the size of the bigger guy wears him down.

Can you imagine Jack Dempsey flailing away and hitting gloves even 20% more often against Jess Willard? He might have gassed out before Jess even went down.

 

@reznick used to post footage of Carnera punching in combination. There were lots of examples of it. I think you missed them during your lost weekend when you did not post here. But he proved what you are suggesting is complete nonsense. He produced sequences from fights with Sharkey that demonstrate exactly what you are talking about.

nobody looked more of an uncoordinated oaf than Lennox Lewis and Riddick Bowe when they fought lighter men fighting at a faster tempo than they had. Remember Lewis vs Mavrovic and Bowe vs Herbie Hide? Sure they won those fights but they raised the ghost of Carnera to do it.

yes. If the other guy is just as big, older like Klitschko was, it’s easy to fool yourself into believing Joshua is a reincarnation of Joe Louis rather than the inexperienced kid learning on the job that he Currently is. But that is fine. This is the Superheavyweight division. The true descendants of Joe Louis sized heavyweights are Usyk and Gassiev, not these oafs.

 

Hahaha...Usyk and Gassiev get knocked out by Joshua, Klitschkos, Bowe, Lewis, and Fury

 

Wilder would decapitate Usyk and Gassiev

 

1 ) Usyk has a heck of a chin and could out box Wilder.

2 ) Gassiev his hard enough to KO him.

When Wilder beats a 10 ten guy in his prime for a title defense ( not Ortiz who was out of his prime ) he'll start to make a case. As it stands, you could say Usyk and Gassier would be his 2nd or 3rd best opponent.

 

Not over 15 rounds and smaller gloves. In fact I don’t believe there really is any evidence that can prove Fury or Joshua are ready to do it now over 12 with big gloves anyway.

 

Exactly, I feel SuzieQ49 rather gets a bit carried away with himself dosnt he?

 

Maybe if they were tied to a chair..

 

Really, you think Usyk and Gassiev go the distance with a Prime Lennox Lewis, prime Wladimir Klitschko, prime vitali Klitschko? Prime riddick Bowe?

 

Yeah I get carried away picking two ATG 6'6 250lb heavyweight champions (Lewis and Klitschko) to knockout a 200lb 14-0 fighter....


If I was your father, i would fill out a section 12 for you