Do you hold it against Jack Dempsey for not fighting Harry Greb?

I am a big Dempsey fan but absolutely feel avoiding Wills for years as champion is a serious blemish to his reputation. AS far as fighting Greb, it would have been interesting but no big deal. If Jack lost , a big if, Greb at heavyweight would have been a spoiler type that makes so many look bad I would not see it hurting his rep too much .. getting flattened by Wills would have ..

 

After the Wills vs Fulton fight Dempsey who sat ringside noted how slow Wills feet were.
Maybe he was greatly diminished in the Madden, Firpo and Uzcudun fights but he just looks like the slow type to me, I have hard time believing he was really fast. His style looks more like a maul and grab style. I could be wrong but Dempsey thought he was slow as well in the fight with Fulton.

 

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JuST LIKE I HOLD IT AGAINST MIKE TYSON FOR ABSOLUTELY REFUSING TO FIGHT THE THEN BIGGEST DRAW IN THE SPORT;George Foreman. No difference except their was a promoter with the money to promote it.

 

Then it was a really odd choice for him to note how slow Wills was in knocking out Dempsey’s best scalp to that point with a body shot that broke three of his ribs and then the following day sign to fight Billy Miske who had just come out of a year long retirement due to a terminal illness that Dempsey has admitted he was aware of. It certainly doesn’t make Dempsey look like he really thought Wills was no match. “Wills looks slow and vulnerable breaking that guy in half BUT I’m going to go over here and fight this sick man...”

 

The answer to this argument is Bill Brennan. Bill Brennan wasn’t half the boxer Tunney was, fought Dempsey in his prime, and used the jab, right hand, and clinch with a lot less leg work than Tunney did to totally confuse and frustrate Dempsey. He wobbled him once in the fight, nearly tore his ear off with a pinch late in the fight, and some ringsides had him ahead at the stoppage. Did Dempsey look any worse getting outboxed in 1920 against a far inferior Brennan? If Brennan could do that to Dempsey is it out of the question that Tunney could have done as well as he did in 1926? I think not.

 

First off, I have never ever seen Wills in a list of top 20 heavyweight s of all time. That is fantasy. SECOND AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A PROMOTER WILLING TO PUT UP THE MONEY FOR THE FIGHT. THERE WAS NONE. RICKARD REFUSE TO EVER PROMOTE A BIRACIAL HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP FIGHT AGAIN AFTER THE FALLOUT FROM JOHNSON-JEFFRIES. THIS IS FACTUAL HISTORY. NO OTHER PROMOTER CAME UP WITH THE GREEN. TO PAINT DEMPSEY AS AFRAID IS ASSININE. UP TO FRAZIER-ALI, THERE WERE 7 million dollar gates. 5 with Dempsey one with Louis and MARCIANO vs Moore. So they must have known what they were doing. Dempsey was afraid of no one and to say he ducked Greb is asinine. Simple not true. Give it up folks. Dempsey went down in history as a a great fearless warrior king 100 yrs ago by those that SAW and KNEW him. No revisionist historians with an axe to grind because of his or her dislike for the man will EVER change that. Most casual middle aged sports fans who watched boxing in the 60-90s know the name Robinson, Zale, Graziano, LaMotta, Armstrong, Duran, Monzon, Hagler Spinks Griffith,. Mention Greb and average sports guys have no idea who the fu ck he is. In the best fighter poll of the first 50 years of the 20th century that Dempsey won, Greb didn't even place! Benny Leonard did. Ketchel did. There are reasons for this and no revisionist will EVER change it.

 

I’m just quoting what Dempsey said and he did sit ringside for it. I followed it up by saying I felt by viewing the limited footage of Wills that he doesn’t look fast and I wouldn’t be surprised basically if he wasn’t that much faster in his prime. We all know Wills didn’t get his shot undeservedly so, and I do hold it against Dempsey. But maybe Wills really wasn’t that fleet of foot?

 

Dempsey was a different animal I think it’s beyond probable he fares better against Tunney in 1920 than he did in 26-27. Regardless of the Brennan bout. I did say Tunney would always pose a problem and yes he could still outbox Dempsey. But I think you would have to increase Dempsey’s chances by sheer vitality and athelticsm he possessed six years earlier

 

Where's your evidence that Wills was fast? I doubt Wills was a strong as Willard,hit any harder than Firpo or Fulton.Fulton lasted less than half a minute with Dempsey. What did Wills beating Fulton 2 year later prove to Dempsey?
Dempsey turned down a fight with Langford in1916 ,when he was 20 years old, which was a very sensible thing to do at that stage of his budding career.
Wills first fought Langford in his 21st fight and he didn't beat him until his was having his38th one.
Wills typically rated in the top 20 all time, by whom?
Miske was on his death bed? Dempsey defended against him in1920 Miske had a further 23 fights over the next 3 years beating among others
Renault x2
Roperx3
Brennan
Fulton
Weinert
Miske died in1924, 4 years after he challenged Dempsey!

 

This is off Box Rec, I'm putting it up for interest sake.

"First Defense: KO of Friend"

My first defense of the world heavyweight championship title was on Labor Day, 1920, against a dying friend of mine. I knocked him out because I loved the guy -- Billy Miske.

It happened in Benton Harbor, Mich. This was the third and last time I fought Billy.

He was dying of Bright's disease. I didn't know his condition was as bad as it was. All I knew was that he begged me for the fight. He was broke and needed a good payday so that he could rest and regain his health.

But there was never any question that it was a legitimate match. In one of our two previous fights he had held me to a draw and he had clouted me real good in the other.

There's been a story around for years that when I came into the ring and Miske looked at me, fit and ready, he lost control of himself. That's a lie. Billy was as brave that day as any fighter I ever met.

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Face a Problem

My problem was whether to carry Miske a few rounds or put him out as soon as I could. If I carried him, I'd have to cut him up through the fight, to protect the title. There was a chance that he might connect, I'd get a bad cut, and the fight might be stopped. I tried to knock him out in the first round, but the best I could do was hurt him with a body punch. I couldn't get a shot at his jaw.

In the second round I got a part of it and knocked him down. In the third round I just shut my eyes, hit him with a left that straightened him up, then let the right hand go -- and that's all there was to it.


Joe Louis knew John Henry Lewis had eye trouble but he gets a pat on the back for providing him with a pay day,it's a funny old world.