Is Harry Wills Resume overrated?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by The Long Count, Apr 25, 2018.


  1. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He has some fantastic names on his ledger (Langford, Jeanette, Mcvey, Norfolk) but most of his wins come against these men far past their best or in the case of Norfolk suspect circumstances. Wills was obviously the outstanding challenger of the Dempsey era, and wrongfully denied of a chance at the crown. However going through his resume two things stand out to me.
    1. He came along at the perfect time to face the previous generation of great black heavyweights as they were on their way out. He didn’t notch a win on Jeanette til he was 40. And both Mcvey and Langford were in their 30s Mcvey had over 80 fights and Langford well over 100, these were shopworn men.
    2. He has an inordinate bevy of fights against the same opponents.

    He seemed great at smashing out past prime fighters like Gunboat Smith(in his final pro fight age 34, Denver Ed Martin in his final fight age 40)

    His win streak, and dominance must be respected. He must also be excused to some extent for failure to engage some of the fighters of the era who obviously avoided him.

    What’s your opinion (the forum) on Wills resume. Politics aside of the era, which obviously went against him, of how Wills resume stacks up? Does it lack too many fighters in their Prime, to be considered a great resume?
     
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Some "names" avoided him and in his last years as a relevant contender ,he was accused of avoiding the "iron" of his division,resting on his laurels, hoping for his deserved title shot.
    Here is an interesting take on him and his times. I post it just for interests sake and don't vouch for anything it contains.

    http://fightfilmcollector.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/the-trouble-with-harry-harry-wills-vs.html
     
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  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I must say I was a bit disappointed when film of Firpo and Wills turned up. Very underwhelming. But perhaps Wills was much better in fights we never saw with Fred Fulton and Willie Meehan?
     
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  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    The story sounds familiar. Avoiding the iron of his division. Hmmmm..

    Wills did duck out of matches vs Godfrey and declined Tunney.
     
  5. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I don't think his resume is overrated.
    I think anyone who talks about his resume tends to mention the issue of him facing the same old fighters multiple times, the fact that Langford et al had seen better days.
     
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  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I think his resume is mostly misunderstood. Those who study the dates, ages, and results will change perspective a bit, most realizing he was not quite as great as their initial baseline thoughts.

    Wills disappoints on film too.
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    "
    In the years that Wills was ranked by the Ring magazine
    1924,25,26.He fought 4 other ranked contenders. Beating 2 Firpo and Weinert ,and losing 2, Sharkey and Uzcudun.Okay he was a veteran in 25 &26 but among those he somehow missed in those 3 years are.
    Renault
    Rojas
    Godfrey
    Maloney
    Spalla
    Tunney
    Gorman
    Young Bob Fitzsimmons
    Persson
    Hansen
    Risko
    Gibbons
    Maybe some of them wouldn't fight him IDK,but we know Tunney and Godfrey stated they were agreeable to meet him.
    Here is a brief summary of his 1922 fight with Kid Norfolk.
    Wills and Norfolk met in New York on March 2, 1922. When the two battlers met in the middle of the ring the mismatch was apparent to all that surveyed the two men. The disparity in size was alarming (Wills 6'2" 230 and Norfolk 5'9" 185). Wills stood almost a full foot taller that Norfolk and looked as if he could sweep him away with one stoke of his long ebony arms. The fight itself was little more than a public beating with Wills plastering the helpless Norfolk for a full round and a half before depositing him on the canvas with a vicious right hand midway through the second. Norfolk gamely tried to rise but could not find his footing. The fight was waved off when the Kid rose stumbled and then fell back into the ropes"

    Wills fought Jeff Clark multiple times , 4 during Dempsey's reign in 1919 Clark had 17 fights that year 3 were ND's ,of the others he won 2. Wills best wins during Dempsey's title tenure are.
    1919
    Langford W 8
    Clark TKo4

    1920
    Fulton Ko3
    Langford W15

    1921
    Clark Ko2

    1922
    Langford W10
    Norfolk Ko2
    Clark Ko2
    Clark Ko3
    1923 ----
    1924
    MaddenW15
    Firpo W12
    1925 Weinert ko2
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  8. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    Doesn't look special on the films available to me at all.
     
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  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Until the film showed up nobody knew what he would have looked like. It allowed room for a lot of artistic license. some people were even saying Wills was a George Foreman type killer. But in the film we have seen he appears more kind of clinchy.
     
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  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    The guy was 35 years old against Firpo. You wanna judge joe Louis off his fights in the 1950s?
     
  11. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    35 years old and near retirement. Ever think of that?
     
  12. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    You keep judging a man on film taken of him at age 35....

    But Is that a bad thing? Most of the big bums demosey fought sucked on the inside and sucked at clinching. Wills superior strength punching power uppercuts and clinching ability would have served him well on the inside vs jack Dempsey
     
  13. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    His resume is arguably a tad better than a Dempsey’s. He dominated two of Dempsey’s best scalps Fulton and Firpo, beat Norfolk who shutout Miske, and defeated Langford who dempsey was too scared to fight. Not to mention Jeanette and mcvea who were still highly rated fighters in 1915.

    Another person who judges wills based on footage of him at 35 years old instead of in his prime
     
  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    You think Wills did better against Firpo?
     
  15. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Like I say, maybe wills looked better against big Willie?