Top 15 heavyweights, 2002-2017.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Apr 26, 2018.


  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Top 15 heavyweights, 2002-2017. I'm going to tinker with his later, so the order can change.

    Scoring:

    1 ) Number of title defenses 25%

    2 ) Number of top ten opponents beaten that appear in Ring Magazine Annual ratings 25%

    3 ) Head to head projection 25%. IMO

    4 ) Overall Record and activity in the timeline 25%

    1 ) Wlad - Active from 2002-2017, The longest tenured champion, most wins over the top ten opponents. What else is there to say.

    2 ) Vitali - Next highest in wins over the top ten opponents, and title defenses. Only lost once via a cut in the timeline. His initial retirement from 2005 to late 2008, prevents a higher ranking even though head to head he could be #1. Made the hall of fame on the first ballot, collecting the most votes in the process, I think.

    3 ) Joshua, the clear #1 today, I'm placing him at #3 for now and it could be too generous. His most significant win is still over Wlad at age 41, and that one could have gone either way. He fights Povetkin ( who will be 39 ) next and needs to win this one, or he's moving down. Parker is a name win, just one boring fight.

    4 ) Povetkin, underrated, only losing once in this timeline to a prime Wlad. 34-1 from 2005-2018. Has wins over Byrd, Chambers, Chagaev, Rahman, andTakam. Looked better than Wlad, Joshua, and Wilder vs. the same competition. Could move to #3 is he beats Joshua at age 39.

    5 ) Chagaev, a former WBA titleholder with wins over Valuev, Ruiz, and Meehan. Only lost twice in his prime / near to Wlad and Povetkin.

    6 ) Haye, active as a heavyweight from 2008 to current, he holds wins over Valuev, Ruiz, Barrett, and Chisora. Not always eager to fight the best, he declined Vitali Klitschko's offer and fought to survive vs. Wlad.

    7 ) Peter - A former WBC titleholder, has wins over Toney 2X, McCline, and Maskeav. Highly rated for a while.

    8 ) Wilder. After 8 WBA title defenses, Wilder has finally beaten someone in the top ten. The trouble it Ortiz was nearly 39 when it happened, and it was close. Wilder has struggled in matches vs. top 15-40 type of opponents, but he still undefeated and can undoubtedly punch. I think he loses as soon as he faces a top 5 guy in his prime. We'll see. If he collects more top ten wins, he moves up.

    9 ) Ruiz. A former WBA titleholder Ruiz has wins over Valuev, Johnson, Rahman, and Golota, pretty much done by 2010. Many of the wins were very close.

    10 ) Valuev. WBA titleholder. The giant fought many of the timelines, beating Ruiz, Holyfield, McCline, and Liakhovich. Losing to Chagaev and Haye in close fights.

    11 ) Fury. Fury defeated Wlad at age 39 on points and has a win over Chisora. Inactivity hurts him; I tend to doubt he'll regain his form. Would like to see Fury vs. Wilder or Joshua. Fury the opportunity to climb the ranks if he's back to his physical and mental prime.

    12 ) Brewster wins over Wlad, Golota, and Meehan place this durable puncher here.

    13 ) Pulev only lost once to Wlad. He was highly rated one time. Pulev has decent wins over Chisora, Peter, Thompson, and Ustinov. Has a chance to move if matched vs. Joshua or Wilder and wins.

    14 ) Adamek, highly rated for a while he has wins over Arreloa Grant, Estrada, and Golota. Name guys, some of which were past their primes.

    15 ) Ibragimov, head to head I'd rate him higher. He retired in 2008 but had wins over Briggs, Holyfield. And Whitaker.

    Just missed the cut. Sanders. He holds the best win over Wlad and gave Vitali a decent fight. The #1 and #2 on the list. I'd pick him over a lot of guys on this list. The 2002-2017 timeline doesn't work well for him as he was past his prime by 2005 and retired by 2008.

    Others: Arreola, Chambers, Byrd, Toney.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Is the % indicative of an actual calculation or are you just ball-parking how you feel about these things?
     
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  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    A mix of ball parking with the above guidelines. Head to head is how I feel. Wilder was tough to place. He has a good amount of title defense, but just one top ten opponent beaten as champion.

    So Wilder scores highly on being a champion with title defense, but low on quality of opposition beaten ( top ten opponents rated ). Head to head I'm not a big believer in him, we'll see when he fights a top ranked guy in his prime.
     
  4. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Where’s Lewis?

    There’s also little difference between the level of performance and opposition of Wilder and Joshua, so I don’t agree with separating them by so many places. Wilder is easily in front of Peter and Chaggy.

    Chambers beat Dimitrenko, Brock, Peter, and Guinn. That should be good enough. Pulev and Iggy should be ejected for Sanders and Chambers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
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  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Lewis retired very early in the 2002-2017 time line. I didn't put Sanders in for the same reason.

    I'll consider Chambers who just missed the cut, but I think Iggy and Pulev would beat him head to head.

    Maybe a top 20 would be best, with Lewis and Sanders in it, and Chambers somewhere between 15-20?
     
  6. jowcol

    jowcol Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Belongs in the 'General Forum'.
     
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  7. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    I feel like you don't want to follow your own criteria. Lewis beat two ranked fighters, Tyson and Vitali, within the time frame. It's easy to argue that he was the best fighter during that period (25%) and it's easy to argue that he scored the biggest win (Vitali).

    You also aren't following the rules for Wilder. 6 title defenses, 2 top five ranked contenders (one of whom was a monster), and a head to head beast. Chagaev, Haye, and Peter have nothing on that.

    Fury also is getting the short end of the stick having logged a bigger win than Joshua ever had. There's no chance in hell that Peter, Chagaev, or Haye deserve to be ahead.
     
  8. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ruiz over Fury made me chuckle.
     
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  9. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    lol @ Sam Peter and David Haye above Wilder.
     
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  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    I wanted to take this thread seriously. I think it’s a good idea.

    But Ruiz and Valuev over Fury? :rolleyes:

    Come on man you’re better than that
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
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  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Who has Wilder beaten? There's your answer. If Wilder can beat a few more top ten opponents has a chance to move up. Until then his best win is over a 38-41 year old, who almost had him out.
     
  12. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Haye beat a Russian.
    Peter beat a Russian.
    Therefore, Wilder ranks below them despite knocking out a guy who would wipe the floor with both of those Russians on the same night, bludgeon Peter, and put Haye into a tentative shell where he’d be praying to squeak out a decision while running around throwing 10 punches per round.

    This is a scientific discussion, afterall, with specific percentages awarded on extra specific criteria.
     
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  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    You might want to check, Wilder beat a Russian too, way past his best, but hey he beat him. The guy I'm talking about was a WBO champion. I guess you were unaware of that. Your retort now is what?
     
  14. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Wilder only beat the corpse of a Russian, hence you can’t rank him.
     
  15. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Sam Peters was only one of many blow-ins that occupied the rankings during the worst HW division known to peoplekind, k?

    His two best wins are Oleg on the cusp of retirement and James Tony past his prime. He needed a second fight to prove he was better than Toney cos he got out boxed in the first match and got a gift decision.

    Otriz and Stiverne are better wins. Stiverne twice battered an Arroela who was a better conditioned version of Sam Peter.
    MaKliner was destroyed by Arrolea whereas Peter went life n death with an out of shape MaCliner who took the fight on short notice.
    Peter couldn't beat Chamber. Wilder victim Gerry Washington beat Chamers by shutout.

    Peter never made one successful defense of his EBC strap , Wilder has made many.

    He may have lost his first defense to Vitali , but i reckon King Kong could possibly beat Vitali based on his struggles against southpaws.

    Wasn't Vitali countered rather easily by a flat footed Byrd who has zero power?. Kong hit a lot harder than Byrd and has a height advantage plus a whopping reach advantage by 8 inches. He even has a longer reach than Vitali by 5 inches . Those advantages matter especially since Vitali can only box from range .
    Also an untrained Sanders was able to clip Vitali easily and sent him reeling all over the ring before his 3 round gas tank packed in.
    Ortiz hasn't shown any stamina issues so he would pose Vialti some serious problems with his power , superior reach and awkward angles.
    Who did Vitali beat thats better than Ortiz? The best prime opponent he beat was Chris Arroela.

    Wilder is getting closer to matching Vitali resume, never mind Sam Peters who is a nobody in comparison . Stop being so silly.