Sandy Saddler vs Salvador Sanchez 126 Primes

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Apr 20, 2018.


  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    He beat a post plane crash pep. Pep in his prime would have beaten saddled every time.

    No, Nelson doing so well against Sanchez proves how great both men were...have you seen the fight? One of the best in boxing history, Nelson was incredible that night

    I do give credit for Saddler defeating lightweights...Saddler is my number 3 featherweight of all time, right after Sanchez and pep

    I consider Saddler an ATG fighter..I just think Sanchez was slightly better and he had the durability, confidence, mental toughness to be able to defeat Saddler at 126
     
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  2. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    No doubt he lost some. Look at the extent of his injuries
     
  3. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Post plane-crash Pep won 26 fights in a row, winning the world featherweight title (he already held the NYSAC version) along the way, before running into Sadler. I don’t think he was suddenly stricken with injuries on the night he lost.

    In fact he won around 70 or 75 fights total after the plane crash. He was well enough to beat Sadler once in that span out of four tries. He beat a lot of other top-notch fighters after the crash as well.

    Sadler was just better. Rougher, stronger, meaner ... better.
     
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  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Pep never claims this in his book which I've just finished,in it he calls Saddler the hardest punching featherweight of all time. Pep's crash was in Jan 1947 he was back in the ring in June of that year and had 11 fights winning them all,the following year he had 17 fights losing only the 16th ,to Saddler,Saddler beat Pep 3 out of 4 times.
     
  5. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Most experts of that time say Pep lost some of his speed and reflexes post plane crash. joe rein who saw Pep pre and post used to say all the time Pep was better pre plane crash.

    Considering the brutal extent of peps injuries, I totally buy that theory.

    I think pre plane crash Pep beats saddler 3 out of 4. Pep was way ahead on the cards in the 3rd and 4th fight, but the terrible referee allowed saddled to commit every dirty trick in the book injuring Pep forcing him to quit
     
  6. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Saddler was not better. Pep accomplishing all of that post plane crash shows you just how great he was, even at less than 100 percent of his physical self

    Saddled was dirty, and the ref allowed him to play his games.. but Pep was the much better fighter.

    Saddled had off nights, and lost to other featherweights of the era. If a good ref didn’t allow for saddlers cheap antics, saddled struggled

    Pep was the much better boxer, much more consistent fighter, had a greater career. Pep was better
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    It's funny that Pep admits they were both guilty of fouling,it wasn't one sided .
     
  8. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Not head to head. And Pep was pretty dirty in the one he won vs. SS.

    Sadler > Pep.

    Whatever toll the plane crash took on him did not show up until he stepped into the ring with Sadler. He was not so severely diminished that he was a shell of himself. It’s an easy excuse but it flies in the face of what he did after the crash. He recovered.
     
  9. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'd agree with that whole heartedly, I'd still make him an underdog against Sandy
     
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  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Nope

    Pep > Saddler. Head to Head and career accomplishments

    You’re in he minority if you think otherwise. Most fans, experts, historians...all rate Pep higher


    Oh yeah, surviving a plane crash with a broken back and several other severe injuries is a “easy” excuse :rolleyes:

    Pep pre plane crash was faster and had better reflexes
     
  11. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So the results of the actual MULTIPLE head-to-head fights between them don’t count in deciding who is better head to head? That’s ridiculously insane. It’s classing “I’ll take my narrative regardless of facts.”

    Pep’s performance in the years after the plane crash show he was still a great fighter. He accomplished as much after the crash as before, probaby more. If you’re going to throw out his losses after that and say he was damaged goods, you have to throw all that came after. Can’t have it both ways.

    The “Pep was never the same after the crash” narrative begins with Saddler whipping him. It’s convenient.

    People recover from injuries, even major ones, all the time. Sometimes they don’t, but in this case he did.
     
  12. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    No because saddler fought a physically past his prime version of Willie Pep. Especially by their fourth fight in 51 pep was getting knocked silly by the average Tommy Collins

    Pep was faster, better reflexes pre plane crash. Many eye witnesses have confirmed this.

    Pep also defeated Saddler, did much better against common opponents, and was ahead against saddler in 3rd and 4th fights before poor reffing allowed saddler to commit foul after foul. Saddler lost to guys like Terranova and Sierra whom pep handled. Pep was way more consistent head to head, and pre 1946 Pep defeats any version of saddled in my opinion. He also has a style that fares better against other greats head to Head more so than saddler.

    Saddlers first win over Pep was a great win. Saddler was a great fighter but pep was better

    Most people agree Pep was better than saddler. You’re in the minority
     
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  13. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    He recovered enough to fight on and still record some big Wins, but he wasn’t the same. According to eye witnesses there was a noticeable difference in speed and reflexes.

    There’s film out there of pep pre plane crash. See for yourself
     
  14. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Do you even know what head to head means?

    It means when Fighter A fights Fighter B. That’s head to head. How the heck can Pep be more consistent head to head against a guy who consistently beat him head to head. It’s like saying LaMotta is better than Robinson head to head. It’s insanity.

    Is there film of Pep against Saddler pre-crash? No. You can believe he would have beaten him before but quite frankly a lot of people (the opinions you are citing) were in love with Pep and didn’t want to accept that he got manhandled ... which he did. So there came excuses.

    Saddler > Pep and he proved it in the ring. Styles make fights and his style was made to beat Pep because he didn’t sit back and watch the guy dance around ... he made him fight. And his style may not have meshed as well with some other guys so they beat him.

    But head to head, there can be no question. You can hold the party line that Pep was diminished but are you honestly acting like he was at the end of his rope like, say, Ali against Spinks or Louis against Marciano? Look at what he did post-crash before Saddler and what he did after Saddler. Was his post-prime dip limited to fights he happened to lose to an ATG but not present in his other fights?
     
  15. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Head to Head. Saddlers 3 to 1 victories over a past his prime but still great Willie Pep hold a lot of weight..but there are other significant factors.

    Sandy was inconsistent, he had trouble with a lot more styles than pep did. He lost to 2 other men whom Pep beat.

    Pep in his prime is better head to head because I think he can deal with other styles from greats better than saddler can.

    Think of it this way. Who rates fighting Harada over Jofre all time? Despite going 2-0 vs jofre
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018