Is Harry Wills Resume overrated?

Did some film of Wills from 1918 surface? If not, I don't understand how folks would be judging him on what is available.

 

I think what disappoints some people is that there is a need to believe that the natural order of history was prevented. like the idea that there was this great modern sized heavyweight who ordinarily would have replaced Dempsey (much like Foreman was allowed to replace Frazier in another) era and that the colour bar prevented this.

For many years nobody could know one way or the other. Perhaps we still can’t know one way or the other. But I think the film shows that Wills fought a different style to George Foreman or Sonny Liston and that he never would have done. Going by film wills was more of a spoiler.

 

Perhaps. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree.

I just think there is room for a tantalising theory that could make an old fighter into a modern fighter at an earlier time for some people out there. -And I don’t think we can ever be so sure only one person might think that.

There is a lot of faith put into tape measurements and muscles when assessing great fighters after all.

 

Overrated is not the first word that springs to mind, when talking about Harry Wills record.

If there had been Ring Magazine rankings throughout his career, I am certain that the number of champions and contenders who had fought more ranked opponents, could be counted on the fingers of one hand!

Wills is essentially a forgotten colossus, who became largely forgotten a decade after he retired.

 

Loving this thread. Such disparate opinions. How do you like these ATG Heavyweight apples?
19. Jackson
20. Fitzsimmons
21. Corbett
22. Wills
23. Sullivan
24. Walcott
25. Charles

 

Some excellent articles provided by Senya here.

http://senya13.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Sam Langford

 

I will bite, and take each in turn:

Jackson must be ranked among the very best heavyweights who never held the title. One of the few that would be an odds on favorite to win it at some point. He is tricky to rate precisely, because the contemporary eveidence is sketchy.

Fitzsimmons basically knocked out every heavyweight contender apart from Jeffries. Corbett often appears in top 20 all time heavyweight lists today, while Fitzsimmons does not. It is hard to see why!

Corbett clowned pretty much everybody who he fought, but his resume hangs quite heavily on fights that he did not win. Perhaps he is slipping down the rankings today?

Wills has his own thread here, so I will say nothing.

Sullivan was one of the most dominant heavyweight champions of all time on paper. You should probably either have him in your top ten, or leave him off the list altogether!

Walcott and Charles could very uncontrovertially be rated where you have them!

 

1. How do you know wills was slow in 1918-1920?

2. Speed is irrelevant. Firpo was slow as molasses and still knocked Dempsey out of the ring. Wills had plenty of attributes that would trouble Dempsey. He was a terrific infighter, unlike the porous big men demosey fought. He was extremely strong and knew how to use his strength, unlike the garbage big men demosey fought. This is important because demosey would not be able to control him on the inside where he typically is very comfortable. Also wills was a big hitter in both hands with a very good uppercut, which works well against a style like demoseys. Wills was very athletic in his prime, unlike the big oafs demosey usually fought

A big strong powerful athletic skilled infighter...something demosey never came close to facing

 

Judging wills on the uzcuden fight eh? Yeah you know, I just watched Ali Holmes.. Ali was unable to dodge the hooks and jabs of Holmes...he looked very slow and vulnerable in there.

 

Because Dempsey fans are obsessed with the “Dempsey mystique” their grandfathers told them about when gramps was tricked by the press in the 20s...

Over time, smart and educated historians divulged into dempseys career and upon further reflection we see his title reign was a complete farce marked by blatant ducks of the two overwhelmingly best contenders of the era, and a obvious drawing of the color line out of fear of losing his title to a black man.

Dempsey was no doubt a great puncher and way ahead of his time in that capacity, but he was not the Achilles his fans make him out to be in his prime.

I do find it funny that a few clips of wills way over the hill show up, and Dempsey fans pounce on that footage as evidence a prime wills had no chance.

 

Kind of like spoiler Willie Meehan spoiled jack Dempsey in his prime and beat him? By the way wills easily handled Meehan

 

Sullivan refused to fight Black men including a hall of famer. Automatically off my list.

 

Wills 4 rounder who says it was easy?